There were fusion groups like Creedence Clearwater Revival, and some rockers, especially from the folk music and harmony side, started countrifying their music. The Eagles were one, but so were CSNY, The Flying Burrito Brothers, and the Byrds. There was a strong bluegrass flavor. At the same time, country musicians were getting rockier. Rockabilly, Bakersfield. Both sides received a lot of official condemnation from purists, but man did they sell a lot of records.
Modern country is pretty much straight line from the later versions of that fusion: Dwight Yoakam, Reba McEntire, Randy Travis, then Garth Brooks. I swear contemporary Christian is pretty much 90s country rock.
It’d be interesting to trace the links back to real country music. It’s obvious for Skynyrd; for Led Zeppelin it’s more attenuated, but probably similar to The Rolling Stones’ “Country Honk.”
Although, Country Honk might be real country. I always preferred Honky Tonk Women; it's got more cowbell.
The Dalton gang ran in Oklahoma and Kansas. When I was a kid we went through Coffeyville where they tried to rob two banks at once but things went sideways for them. So it was fun when I first heard Doolin-Daltons. Also visited Dodge City, though it was pretty touristy.
Flying Burrito Brothers were a hippie bluegrass group, very talented musicians. They did David Dudley's "Six Days on the Road," they recorded "Wild Horses" before the Stones did. A lot of people came and went in that band. Gram Parsons was in for a while.
I wouldn't say anything by the Rolling Stones was "real country," but that goes back to last week's discussion. By the way, I was on a road trip last week and heard some radio country stations. One of them played the Beyonce song, which I heard a few seconds of as a consequence. It is definitely not country.
We didn’t even try to define it. We left it in aporia.
I think you can play a country song as The Rolling Stones; maybe even Beyoncé could do it. (My phone automatically corrected both names to be sure I capitalized and punctuated these celebrities correctly.) But the Stones aren’t country, even if they sometimes do sing a Waylon Jennings song about Bob Wills.
Yeah, the Stones aren't country. I think when they play 'Country Honk' and 'Bob Wills Is Still the King' those are still country songs, but in a sense are tributes to country music.
I haven't really read much about authenticity, but it seems the idea comes into play here. Yet, that's a slippery concept from what I can see. My best guess right now is that authenticity means the right cultural activity, done by the right people, and maybe done for the right reason.
So, authentic country music would have the qualities of country music and be played by country musicians. If motive is a factor, some sense that they are telling country stories or representing country culture, rather than just making money, would seem to be part of it. (Nothing wrong with making money, even a lot of money, but that would be a secondary consideration. One of the criticisms of Nashville country is that it is "commercial.")
So, "paying tribute" would not be authentic, but rather a form of compliment paid to the authentic form.
I dunno. Anyone else have thoughts on authenticity?
I don't know if anybody else does. I said what I meant to say about it in the previous post: it's a sort of vagueness problem. There are clear cut cases on each end of the spectrum, and an area of increasing lack of clarity as you move to the middle. The Stones just happen to be a clear cut case of 'not Country,' even though they enjoy country music and sometimes play country songs as a sort-of tribute.
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There were fusion groups like Creedence Clearwater Revival, and some rockers, especially from the folk music and harmony side, started countrifying their music. The Eagles were one, but so were CSNY, The Flying Burrito Brothers, and the Byrds. There was a strong bluegrass flavor. At the same time, country musicians were getting rockier. Rockabilly, Bakersfield. Both sides received a lot of official condemnation from purists, but man did they sell a lot of records.
Modern country is pretty much straight line from the later versions of that fusion: Dwight Yoakam, Reba McEntire, Randy Travis, then Garth Brooks. I swear contemporary Christian is pretty much 90s country rock.
It’d be interesting to trace the links back to real country music. It’s obvious for Skynyrd; for Led Zeppelin it’s more attenuated, but probably similar to The Rolling Stones’ “Country Honk.”
Yeah, AVI, I thought about CCR, but thought the post was getting a little long. I'll have to track down a couple of those -- Flying Burrito Brothers?
Grim, I thought about Country Honk, but you posted it recently and there's a lot of material. It would be interesting to track the links back.
Although, Country Honk might be real country. I always preferred Honky Tonk Women; it's got more cowbell.
The Dalton gang ran in Oklahoma and Kansas. When I was a kid we went through Coffeyville where they tried to rob two banks at once but things went sideways for them. So it was fun when I first heard Doolin-Daltons. Also visited Dodge City, though it was pretty touristy.
Flying Burrito Brothers were a hippie bluegrass group, very talented musicians. They did David Dudley's "Six Days on the Road," they recorded "Wild Horses" before the Stones did. A lot of people came and went in that band. Gram Parsons was in for a while.
I wouldn't say anything by the Rolling Stones was "real country," but that goes back to last week's discussion. By the way, I was on a road trip last week and heard some radio country stations. One of them played the Beyonce song, which I heard a few seconds of as a consequence. It is definitely not country.
Did that thread end up with a good definition of country music? And where would Country Honk fail?
What do you think about this:
https://youtu.be/SwEOZtJm8pU?si=EcB1GEgfd4XPG9nn
It's the Rolling Stones playing a straightforward version of "Bob Wills Is Still the King." Mic says they learned it from Waylon Jennings.
We didn’t even try to define it. We left it in aporia.
I think you can play a country song as The Rolling Stones; maybe even Beyoncé could do it. (My phone automatically corrected both names to be sure I capitalized and punctuated these celebrities correctly.) But the Stones aren’t country, even if they sometimes do sing a Waylon Jennings song about Bob Wills.
Yeah, the Stones aren't country. I think when they play 'Country Honk' and 'Bob Wills Is Still the King' those are still country songs, but in a sense are tributes to country music.
I haven't really read much about authenticity, but it seems the idea comes into play here. Yet, that's a slippery concept from what I can see. My best guess right now is that authenticity means the right cultural activity, done by the right people, and maybe done for the right reason.
So, authentic country music would have the qualities of country music and be played by country musicians. If motive is a factor, some sense that they are telling country stories or representing country culture, rather than just making money, would seem to be part of it. (Nothing wrong with making money, even a lot of money, but that would be a secondary consideration. One of the criticisms of Nashville country is that it is "commercial.")
So, "paying tribute" would not be authentic, but rather a form of compliment paid to the authentic form.
I dunno. Anyone else have thoughts on authenticity?
I don't know if anybody else does. I said what I meant to say about it in the previous post: it's a sort of vagueness problem. There are clear cut cases on each end of the spectrum, and an area of increasing lack of clarity as you move to the middle. The Stones just happen to be a clear cut case of 'not Country,' even though they enjoy country music and sometimes play country songs as a sort-of tribute.
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