Weighing options again

It turns out the health insurance agent I talked to earlier this week probably was mistaken.  It seems that, as of January 1, 2015, no one will legally be able to sell me high-deductible affordable coverage, with or without medical underwriting, "on" or "off" the exchange.  It's all gone after this next year.

So to recap:   For over a decade we've had a high-deductible policy ($10K per person/$15K for the two) with Blue Cross.  It's very good PPO coverage, decent network, covers all the usual stuff, but a high deductible.  By law, it must be replaced with a deductible that's $3,750 lower per person ($2,500 for the two) but costs $4,800 more a year, and offers no new benefits of any conceivable use to us now or ever.  We have to decide whether to pay the extra $4,800 a year, or go without insurance for the first time in our lives.

We don't "insure" for medical costs that are reasonably likely in an ordinary year; we "budget" for those.  Insurance is for very unlikely harmful developments.  We rely on insurance in case (1) we have a medical problem that would make our lives unendurable or kill us, (2) that can be cured, and (3) that would cost enough to blow our live savings.  All three of conditions (1)-(3) have to happen before the insurance will make a difference to our life savings.  If the medical problem isn't that serious and we can't pay for it, we'll do without. If the medical problem is serious but can't be treated effectively, we'll do without.  If the medical problem is serious and can be treated and wouldn't obliterate our live savings, we'll pay for it ourselves.

The policies offered on the exchange on a subsidized basis (the only way to avoid the huge price hike) are all HMOs.  If my information is correct, they're the worst possible sort of "closed network" HMO; you're covered in the network, but outside the network, you don't just get a lower co-insurance rate, you get zero.  This is a sign of the deteriorating insurance climate, where squeezing down the network is the last option available for cost control.   In contrast, in our PPO, if we go out of network, we suffer only a partial loss of benefits, and there's still a cap on total out-of-pocket expense, though higher than the in-network cap.   If we stay in network, the doctors who have accepted Blue Cross are prohibited from charging us more than the Blue Cross rate, so the entire bill either counts against our deductible or is paid at the usual co-insurance rate.  If we go out of network, the doctor charges what he charges, not Blue Cross's fantasy of what he should charge; we're responsible for 100% of the "excess" price, and only the fictitious price counts against our deductible or is paid at our co-insurance rate.  But even then, we get a certain amount of help with catastrophic bills, and it is possible to put an upper limit on how much destruction can be visited on our life savings by a medical catastrophe.

A closed-network policy HMO would do us almost no good at all.  We want coverage only if there is a very serious problem, and that is the last time we'll be willing to settle for a Tier-4 doctor in the next county.  Our life savings would be nearly at as much risk with such a policy as if we were going bare.   So our decision, which we'll face in late 2014 when our current policy is destroyed by the ACA once and for all, is (1) go bare or (2) pay $4,800 a year more (minimum) for a PPO plan with a decent network of doctors and hospitals.  What makes the choice even more difficult is that Blue Cross reportedly is going to lose doctors and hospitals even from its PPO networks, though probably not as many as they'll lose from their HMO networks.

Going bare would mean saving about $11K every year.  That's enough to build up a pretty impressive warchest against the possibility of an expensive disease.  And we have to consider, now, that we're taking a gamble only on horrible medical bills for a maximum of one year, depending on what month the disaster lands in.   After that, we can just sign back up for insurance for the following year.  (And who knows?  Medicare may actually survive long enough to kick in in 7-9 years.)  The IRS penalty for going bare would be negligible and uncollectible anyway.  Crazy, but going bare seems like the rational choice.

33 comments:

Grim said...

That sounds impressively reasoned, both in terms of what you had been electing to do heretofore, and what you are deciding to do in the future. I'm sorry your choices are getting worse merely because the government decided to think for you. They manifestly don't do it as well as you do.

raven said...

The limited network, and the fact some hospitals are opting out of certain insurance (does it even make sense to call it that anymore?) really throws a twist in. Around here, the best hospital is just over the county line from us, and the in-county hospital is not as good and twice as far away.
Honestly, I am both bewildered and angry at this chaos. There is a townhall meeting with our US Senate Dem. on Monday, maybe I will go and yell at him. This is intolerable.

Texan99 said...

Oh, do, please. I want to see people beating on Congressmen's limos with their umbrellas as in the Rostenkowski days. It's been way too long since we had some thoroughly infuriated town hall meetings.

"Angry" is such a pale and inadequate word. What I'm feeling is worlds more vicious.

E Hines said...

Please note that this isn't health insurance; it's health welfare paid for with dues that would make a union leader in a closed shop state blush.

The dues charged have nothing to do with risk. The "coverage" is entirely bought with OPM--and not just the subsidies and tax credits for the poor folks whom Obama ignores in his pandering to us middle-classers--it's your dues and the dues of the young and healthy for whom the "coverage" is unnecessary, but for whom the dues are unaffordable. Every policy we buy, for instance, has that prenatal and maternity coverage: we're all paying for that, so the women for whom that's actually a "risk" get get the same coverage at artificially depressed prices (and which they likely could get at even lower, legitimate premiums were the government not "managing" the market).

Your understanding of that needs to be made loud and clear to that Senator, and to all of our Congressmen, each of them, in town halls, in letters to them, in letters to local newspapers, blogs like this one, any way the word can be got out.

Raven, I suggest try this line, if you can get the mike: "Will you, Senator, commit right now to working, right now, to repeal Obamacare?" On the assumption you get weasel words--and anything other than "Yes" I submit is weasel words--then respond "You're fired. Don't even run next fall; you'll just be wasting your party's spot on the ballot." Be interesting to see what reaction you get from the crowd as well as the Senator.

Eric Hines

raven said...

Don't know if they will let me speak at the town hall-and
doubt there will be rebuttal time-but I will do my best.
likely just a question and answer- but from what I have been hearing "on the street", this issue has a unexpected consequence in spades- it is equally affecting middle class democratic voters also. So there may be a lot of upset folks there.

A friend works with some big Zero supporters. One came into his office with a sob story about his new insurance costs, which had doubled. Friend replied, "well, you could always hope for change". guy spun on his heel and walked out without a word. Elections have consequences.

I don't remember if I mentioned this, but I called back to my Rep's local office again and got the zerocare coordinator - he said he was getting 50 irate calls a day, and he was well aware of the fallout. Good.

So my Rep is sponsoring a bill to "help increase savings for the low income"called the "American Savings Promotion Act".
So I read the blurb, and I thought it was a joke-wait,no , it's not April yet- the essence is, they plan to have the banks offer prizes, like a raffle, for depositors into the program. I told the guy he was insane, and asked where the hell people with marginal jobs living paycheck to paycheck and watching their buying power being eroded daily by inflation were going to come up with the money, allowing for the fact they might be dumb enough to put money in the bank at.5% while the real rate of inflation is pushing 10%?
These people are living in a different universe.
The six grand a year more they want me to pay for insurance, is what, in a good year, I might have left over after paying all my expenses and putting a bit aside-essentially they are eating all my discretionary income.

Quote for the day-

"for he hath erected a multitude of new offices, and sent forth a swarm of officers to harass us and eat out our substance"

raven said...

Trying to make a reasoned decision about health care in this chaos is like effecting roof repairs in a hurricane.

Texan99 said...

I had my Blue Cross rep on the line this week. They shunted me through to a different section, called "licensed reps," whose staff apparently work for Blue Cross but don't have access to any information about me, a customer these last 30 years or so. I expressed some irritation over being asked questions like "How did you hear about Blue Cross?"

I also expressed irritation when the clueless rep challenged my statement that I was losing my insurance and trying to shop for a replacement. "Who told you you were losing your insurance?" she snapped. "Who told you the replacement would cost twice as much?" Well, Blue Cross did, actually.

She tried to advise me not to listen to media reports, which were just stirring up trouble. I suggested that we not discuss the media, and that she return to her function of answering questions about what Blue Cross was prepared to sell me.

Then she had the gall to say that, after a few months, I might well find that the premium was going to go down drastically. It could happen! Or, you know, the other thing that could happen is it could go up after the death spiral hits, and Blue Cross could decide that their network was now 10 doctors three counties over.

It was not a warm, fuzzy customer experience.

raven said...

I can't decide whether to
run whiskey and guns to the Indians,
or run away and join a Cajun/blues fusion band.

Seems like those are the most logical courses of action....



E Hines said...

"well, you could always hope for change"

Sarah Palin asked a couple of years ago, "How's that hopey-changey thing workin' out for ya?" Lots of folks are starting to find out.

"American Savings Promotion Act"...the essence is, they plan to have the banks offer prizes, like a raffle, for depositors into the program.

They might want to review the outcome of this program when it was a voluntary marketing ploy for S&Ls 40-50 years ago. It didn't work out so well: folks would open a savings account with the minimum deposit, collect their toaster, then a week later close the account and go to the S&L down the street, repeating the thing and getting their waffle iron. And so on. In the end game, the S&Ls were offering cash added to the new deposit if it was left open for a minimum period. That just lengthened the pipeline of account cycling.

Want to encourage savings? Lower taxes.

It was not a warm, fuzzy customer experience.

That might--might--be a BCBS thing. I've been with UHC for some years, but I can't say much about their customer service since I don't interact with them much. I can say they do try hard, or did until I told them to cut it out. After I had my heart event, their two staff nurses started calling me every month, or so, to be sure I was doing all right. Compounding the problem was that neither of the two seemed to know the other had just pestered me the month before. It got to the point where I had to tell them to cut it out and stop calling. That's the last customer service bit I've had with them.

Withal, I've been happy with UHC, but I don't know if they have anything on the private side, or if they're available where you are, T99.

Eric Hines

Grim said...

BCBS doesn't have the worst customer service of any company I deal with. That honor goes to Husqvarna, whose warranty-related customer service is truly horrible. It is possible to actually get someone on the line at BCBS. They may not be helpful, but there's a person you can reach to tell you to your face that they won't help you.

Still, it's not usually a lot of fun to call them. Generally speaking it involves a lot of phone trees, a long wait, and then a conversation you'd rather not have had.

raven said...

Grim said,"That honor goes to Husqvarna",

Do tell- chain saw, motorcycle, rifle or what?

Texan99 said...

UHC is one of the alternatives we're considering. The healthcare broker I've been talking to prefers them to BCBS for their customer service, claims-paying record, and breadth of network.

Our neighbor gets pushy calls from her provider. Wouldn't you like us to send over a home health worker to look over your place and offer you advice? Yeah. No.

Texan99 said...

Re customer service, one of the bright spots of the last year was getting to fire HughesNet, one of the most horrible companies I ever dealt with. Someone finally set up a local WiFi network that not only gives good service but costs 10% of what HughesNet did. Horrible, horrible company.

raven said...

OK- after action report on the Town Hall Meeting. My Representative is newly elected- 1st term democrat.
Nice enough guy, and someone who was on a regional economic development council. So he has been in touch with many businesses and is aware there is not much of any recovery going on.
First impression- there were maybe
50 people there- I expected way more. Probably because the zerocare issue is so important to me, I forgot most are not affected yet.
And no obvious security, which was refreshing- I halfway expected a metal detector.
He seemed to have a grasp on the fact we have an economic problem, but there was no mention at all of the 85 billion a month QE, or the devaluing of the dollar. Also he did not mention the ACA at all. It seemed to be the elephant in the room, if I am using the phrase correctly.
He spoke at some length about gridlock and bi partisan behavior being necessary etc etc- shutdown harming the country- of course nothing about the spiteful administration actions in regard to parks etc.
So I gave my sob story having self identified myself as a republican voter and got a little sympathy from him, ,and some recommendations to call his office for guidance. No sympathy at all from the audience. He did mention ,yes there were some problems but only about 5% of the population was going to lose their plans- I can see why they delayed the employer mandate.
He spoke the standard bushwa about climate change etc, in some respects it seemed almost a biscuit for the crowd, which seemed composed in large part of the left end of the party faithful. There was one LaRouche guy there rambling on and a few moderates, two of who had their ins. canceled also, but by serendipity his Military benefits were set to kick in Jan 1.
I got the definite idea that the
guy knew thing were worse than he really let on- there was a little talk about foreign policy but all soft pedaled BS. no mention of our bonds being left on the table for our banks to buy, no mention of Iran's nuke progress, no mention of the Saudi's publicly dissing us and threatening a move away from USD, nothing serious, just stuff about needing other methods then military force, etc. I think he was catering to his leftist base, most of who sounded like they were in communion with their college protest years.
One lady contradicted my story, said the ACA was great, she had a double mastectomy and other surgery and she pain nothing and she made 50K a year and only had $800 payments etc, I was not allowed to rebut but found it an interesting story as zerocare has yet to kick in...
Basically, no joy. The best I can hope for is that one or two of the small crowd had a tiny crack appear in their preconceptions.

Texan99 said...

It's a start. Most will cover their ears, but you never know when someone is listening. Besides, whether they're listening or not, we have to get used to getting the truth out there constantly. People especially need to hear that there's no truth at all to the idea that policies are being cancelled only if they're "crummy."

Half of those poor suckers may be finding out in the coming year that they're in the same boat with you. The HHS's own internal estimates show they expect an impact on more than 90 million Americans.

But I know it's incredibly discouraging to stand up and tell a story like that, only to get a blank, uncaring stare. I've lost count of the number of people who've simply accused me of lying this week. Some of the same people will claim serenely that Medicare supplemental plans are completely irrelevant and they can't understand why any elderly people are worried about them. Just bumps in the road, right?

raven said...

oh, one other thing- He mentioned "single payer", and they all clapped like some sort of Pavlovian response- some one is pushing the single payer meme hard.

Texan99 said...

Yes, the idea seems to be, "Well, sure this is a catastrophe. What do you expect of any system that isn't single-payer? Why'd you guys force us down this stupid path in the first place?"

E Hines said...

It's a start.

Indeed. We all need to be doing what Raven did. We don't need to reach everyone--just enough of them.

Eric Hines

E Hines said...

And it's especially important to reach for the Dems' constituents, as raven did. Preaching to the choir, or firing up "our base," alone, won't make progress.

Eric Hines

raven said...

i had an interesting conversation with a few folks after the meeting- one well dressed woman was astounded there was a "cliff" point at around the 60K mark where a person can go from a huge subsidy to none at all, incurring a masive tax bill if perchance they earn a little too much that year- being self employed , that would mean I would have to be very careful about "making too much".

While we were talking about subsidies, I stated quite vehemently that "I was raised by depression era parents to believe a man takes care of himself and his family, and that taking welfare was shameful and only a last resort prior to starving". They sorta stared at me like it was a completely new idea-or else they thought I was insane and hopelessly old fashioned.......

Grim said...

Raven:

Chainsaw. I bought one a year or so ago that was having trouble. Now at the time I bought it (from the Tractor Supply Co.) they offered a two-year, 'anything goes wrong and we'll replace it free' policy. So I called to ask about it.

TSC referred me to a national phone-tree that nevertheless got me an answer in short order: their policy only goes into effect after the end of the manufacturer's warranty, which meant I needed to talk to Husqvarna. So I called Husqvarna, and their phone tree turned out to be an endless loop with no link to a person at any point.

So I went to their website, where the 'warranty' section just led to a forum where you could ask questions of other users, plus some FAQs. Number 1 question on the FAQ? "Why doesn't my warranty cover my repair?" The answer was that they only warrant the chainsaw was assembled correctly, and that its parts were machined correctly. Absolutely anything else is non-covered.

I presume I could take the thing to a real Husqvarna dealer and get him to get an answer from his rep, but it sounds like they wouldn't cover it in any case. Or I can wait a year and a half and then turn it in to TSC, which will replace it for free.

Or I can try to fix it on my own, which is of course what I will really do.

Grim said...

+1 on the complaint for HughesNet. I had to deal with them in rural Virginia. They were hideously expensive, offered no help at all, and I had to separately maintain a dial-up line because their service didn't work a third of the time.

raven said...

I am running a 30 year old husky saw- I have beat the crap out of it in big wood, fire wood, and slash burns- still works OK- although the older I get, the heavier it is...
No doubt you will find out what the problem is and fix it . Probably be a lot more satisfying than a damned phone purgatory!

Grim said...

Chainsaws are one of those things (like gas canisters and gasoline and automobiles) that used to be better than they are now. The old saws you could beat to death, swap a few parts and keep going. The new ones are rigged to run on such thin fuel (for reasons of emissions) that the pistons are in constant danger of scoring. Likewise the new ethanol-mix gas burns hotter even when it's fresh, and turns to varnish when it's not. A good countermeasure is to run a richer fuel-oil mix to offer additional protection against the heat, but that will choke the new saws.

Even the non-eth gasoline is less stable now than it used to be. And of course, also for emissions reasons, gas cans can no longer be properly vented, so good luck getting the gasoline out anyway.

Everything the EPA touches turns to crap. We know how to do it better, but we aren't allowed to do it.

Damned if I'll ever buy a motorcycle with a computer of any kind in it if I don't have to. I'll keep fixing the old models for as long as I can. It's about the last piece of machinery that still works right.

E Hines said...

Damned if I'll ever buy a motorcycle with a computer of any kind in it if I don't have to.

I rather like the HOTAS on my car; although I could wish for a slightly different setup. And I still need a HUD.

Eric Hines

raven said...

Just talked to my painting contractor- he has elected to go with insurance from "Samaritan Ministries"- I have not looked into it yet- apparently it is a Christian organization that has some type of insurance program either exempt from or permitted by zerocare.

raven said...

Grim, I concur with your feeling on small engines, CARB compliant gas cans etc. Bikes with computer are nice , when they work- if they stop, there is no roadside fix. Mine have carbs- low tech.

Eric, I will take my HUD with a side order of Browning M-2's.

Texan99 said...

Raven, I looked into a similar organization back when the ACA passed and was very impressed. The only thing that's held me back was a worry whether they could sustain their program, especially back then, when the idea of losing my continuous coverage was so scary. Maybe that doesn't matter any more. Maybe these voluntary organizations are going to be the only sane ones left, especially if you value the choice of your doctor. And from what I understand, they're exempt from the fine.

Someone recently sent me this link:

http://mychristiancare.org/

raven said...

I rather enjoyed this- and the remarks were quite charming. I sent a link and some commentary to my Rep's. Obamacare coordinator, suggesting the Rep had a rare golden bullet to use- he is one of the few Democrats who had the luck to be not in office when this ACA turd slid into the bowl.(pardon my crudity but I could think of no other reasonable accurate description.)

http://www.propublica.org/article/loyal-obama-supporters-canceled-by-obamacare

Texan99 said...

That's an amazing article, Raven, especially the author's strong reluctance to believe the horror story combined with his inability to dismiss it, because this time the sufferers are party loyalists. Why, this may be true! Why haven't I been informed of this? If only Comrade Stalin knew.

I enjoyed the mock comment from "The DNC," assuring the couple that it was a bureaucratic oversight that will be corrected once the NSA, DNC, IRS, and HHS rolls are coordinated, so that premiums can be set on the basis of purity in voting patterns. It's not perfect yet, comrade! In the postwar world, we will achieve continuous improvement!

raven said...

For years I have been reasonably quiet about the crap that is being shoved down our throats, and the multidimensional disasters and stew of corruption this administration has generated- primarily because most of our family friends are staunch democrat voters. I'm done with that. I'll find new friends
if I have too. Was invited to a Thanksgiving party, good times, music jam, etc- NFW- I will stay home rather than mingle with them. Can't suffer the fools.I don't view them as just another political party anymore- now they have made it personal. Their actions are directly hurting my life.
How about this-direct fallout from our boy genius in the white house-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24823846

maybe he thought SA was bluffing when they spat out the UN security council appointment like a bad taste-
monkey with a pistol? - no, more like this-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vpuh6q2O_c




Texan99 said...

My husband just sent me that same link two seconds ago, with the question "Wonder what will happen to the price of oil once the Saudis have nukes?"

Maybe we'll get more serious about developing our own resources.

And I'm still avoiding contact with my sister, my nextdoor neighbor, and my oldest and closest friend.

E Hines said...

direct fallout from our boy genius in the white house

And

"Wonder what will happen to the price of oil once the Saudis have nukes?"

If things go in one direction, that may be a wash. Or, the Saudis better get the weapons while they can afford them; the price of oil may go through the floor despite Obama's best efforts.

And China still is more interested in coal than in oil, especially if Obama's policies put our output on the market, depressing global prices.

The Russians have to be worried, too; they've not learned the lessons of a one-product economy.

Eric Hines