Dad29 had a reply that Echo doesn't seem to be handling properly. I'm going to post it here so that we can explore the issue further; you can find the thread he is responding to at the bottom of this discussion chain.
I should have been more precise. Apologies.I have some further thoughts, but I will hold them for now in order to let D29 take and answer questions freely from you. The usual rules of the Hall apply, of course; I understand that this is a touchy subject for people these days, which is all the more reason to insist upon the courtesies.
No one should condemn the PERSON who has such 'inclinations.' However, the Church has recently described such inclinations as a "grave disorder." IIRC, that was Ratzinger pre-Papacy.
Thus, Paul's teaching as you understand it has been re-affirmed.
The 'judge not' mandate follows the person, not the inclination.
As to the Paul/TA difference: I disagree that they differ in substance. Paul was highly educated in the Jewish tradition. What Paul recognized (without being explicit) was the fact of Original Sin. That means that Paul saw 'defects' here on Earth, particularly in men. TA teaches the same thing: that while all of creation is 'good,' man carries defects resulting from Original Sin. The defects do not obviate the good; they merely exist within the good.
Paul's discussion of punishment is an analogy to the Jewish Exile. They were punished for infidelity to God and His commands. He simply states that the same infidelity results in other 'punishments', IOW, Paul sees "punishment" in broader terms than we do. He sees it as God allowing us to "enjoy" that which is 'of earth' rather than that which is 'of God.'
This vision is similar to the Church's rule of excommunication: one excommunicates oneself. The Bishop's paperwork is merely a follow-on, formalizing the matter. Paul tells us that the wrong exercise of free will results in punishment. (This brings up 'conscience' and natural law, again.)
In that regard, it is useful to recall Christ's words: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life". "Way" (path) is critical to this discussion, but note well that Christ makes Truth, Life, and Way equivalent. (By the way, that makes the goodness-beauty-truth combination much more interesting, no? "Goodness" and "Beauty" are thus attributes of Christ/God, also.)
Vis-a-vis homosexual conduct: your understanding of TA's valuation of "life" is solid. But put "Life" (generation thereof, preservation thereof, etc.) into that saying of Christ and you have another dimension entirely. Thus the strictures on artificial birth control--which is sterile sex, just like homosexual conduct--and abortion, which is murder. Acts which are not, by nature or intent, 'for' life are 'against' it--and Christ is "Life."
Paul was blinded only to make the point that he did not 'see' correctly.
UPDATE: D29 sends some additional material from St. John Chrysostom, including a military analogy. This is commentary on Romans 1, as you may know from reading the earlier thread.
Ver. 24. "Wherefore also God gave them up to uncleanness, through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves."The analogy is interesting -- what should a general officer do if he finds a unit in mutiny, in clear defiance of commander's intent, and because of that loss of discipline now behind enemy lines? Is that a proper analogy to this case? Why or why not?
Hence he shows, that even of the perversion of the laws it was ungodliness which was the cause, but He "gave them up," here is, let them alone. [1220] For as he that hath the command in an army, if upon the battle lying heavy upon him he retreat and go away, gives up his soldiers to the enemies not by thrusting them himself, but by stripping them of his own assistance; thus too did God leave those that were not minded to receive what cometh from Him, but were the first to bound off from Him, though Himself having wholly fulfilled His own part.
But consider; He set before them, for a form of doctrine, the world; He gave them reason, and an understanding capable of perceiving what was needful. None of these things did the men of that day use unto salvation, but they perverted to the opposite what they had received.
What was to be done then? to drag them by compulsion and force? But this were not to make them virtuous. It remained then, after that, for Him to leave them alone, and this He did too, that in this way, if by no other, having by trial come to know the things they lusted after, they might flee from what was so shameful (3 mss. add eikotos, and with reason).
For if any that was a king's son, dishonoring his father, should choose to be with robbers and murderers, and them that break up tombs, and prefer their doings to his father's house; the father leaves him, say, so that by actual trial, he may learn the extravagance of his own madness. But how comes he to mention no other sin, as murder, for instance, or covetousness, or other such besides, but only unchasteness? He seems to me to hint at his audience at the time, and those who were to receive the Epistle. "To uncleanness, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves."
Note the emphasis here, as it is most severe. For they stood not in need of any others, it means, to do insolent violence to them, but the very treatment the enemies would have shown them, this they did to themselves. And then, taking up the charge again, he says, Ver. 25. "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator."
Things which were matter for utter scorn, he puts down specially, but what seemed of a graver cast than the rest, in general terms; and by all he shows, that serving the creature is Grecian. And see how strong he makes his assertion, for he does not say, barely, "they served the creature," but "more than the Creator:" thus everywhere giving fresh force to the charge, and, by the comparison, taking from them all ground of mitigation. "Who is blessed forever. Amen." But by this, he means, He was not any whit injured. For Himself abideth "blessed for ever." Here he shows, that it was not in self-defence that He left them alone, inasmuch as He suffered nothing Himself. For even if these treated Him insolently, yet He was not insolently treated, neither was any scathe done to the bearings of His glory, but He abideth continually blessed. For if it often happen, that man through philosophy would not feel the insults men offered him, much less would God, the imperishable and unalterable Nature, the unchangeable and immovable Glory.
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