5/12/25 Update: I've decided to add a bit of content advisory to this video. It's Willie Nelson & some fellow named Orville Peck (real name?) singing about gay cowboys. I posted it as a kind of "What the heck?" thing, but maybe it was too much; it does get a bit risqué toward the end, though still well within YouTube guidelines. I'll leave further discussion to the comments and maybe a later post on the topic of entertainment. Also, what the heck?
16 comments:
We could have probably done without that.
I find this unconvincing.
It's not people who come from West Texas who have these odd feelings, it's people who live on the road and make their livings by having people look at them.
The Vikings said svá ergisk hverr sem eldisk, which roughly means 'old age makes every man X,' where X could be 'cowardly' or 'effeminate' or something similar to that.
I don't know that they were right; my grandfather chased my thieving cousin out of his house at a very old age with a barrage of .38 shells. But he didn't live to be 92. None of us do; perhaps that's for the better.
I doubt it's age. One of my grandfathers lived to be 99 and was fine to the end.
Few of the famous entertainers seem to have been all that moral even back in their youth. In terms of virtue, I can't see any real difference between the rock scene and the country scene. I suspect Willie was fine w/ all this a long time ago. He just knew he'd lose his audience if he made a video like this. Being 92 and a genuine legend, he doesn't have to care anymore. Whatever he does, he's in the history books and people will be listening to his music long after we're all gone.
Yes. Yes we could.
Depends on what you mean by’a long time ago.’ The artist who wrote Red Headed Stranger wasn’t. The one who appeared in a cameo in Wag the Dog might have been.
Well, that's a good point. Maybe the difference between the rock & country scenes is about 20 years or so.
Well, I sort of meant that we could have done without it here. I hate to give that kind of thing any attention, especially mine.
"In terms of virtue, I can't see any real difference between the rock scene and the country scene."
Depending on which virtue you're talking about, too. In terms of moderation, there was definitely little difference: all the big Outlaws had drug use and alcohol use issues, as big as any in the most legendary rock n' roll outfit. Even George Jones, who was not an Outlaw but a mainstream country music star, had a very serious drinking problem.
In terms of chastity, many of them were as friendly with the women as the great rock 'n roll stars. Some of them sang songs honoring the virtue, but few of them were very good at practicing it.
If the virtue is justice, however, they do look somewhat better. They were loyal to their people and defensive of their people's values and home, communities and neighborhoods. If the virtue is piety, they at least acknowledged its existence and importance in their art.
Yet the whole culture was very different in the 1970s; it's pretty hard to make comparisons between then and the 1990s, let alone between those times and today.
Oh. I thought, this being an outlaw hangout and all, that everyone wanted to stay up on outlaw culture. It was a public service, you know. However, ignorance being bliss and such, I'll refrain in the future.
Reasonable points on which virtues to consider.
Why do you think such comparisons are difficult? We do far bigger comparisons in history.
"... stay up on outlaw culture."
It's like that saying you hear these days about how 'if the whole media is on your side, you're not the Resistance.' Whatever this sort of thing is, it's not Outlaw. Willie was, and may in some sense still be even now, but this isn't.
"Depends on what you mean by’a long time ago.’ The artist who wrote Red Headed Stranger wasn’t."
Do we really know that? That was his breakthrough album, he may have simply been writing what he figured people wanted to hear, and kept his head down on the more radical issues. It's a common thing to do. Fame does change people though.
We do really know that he was very different in that era, before he quit drinking. I suspect decades of heavy marijuana usage would change anyone.
I think it’s hard to compare the world before the internet and smartphones to the old world. A lot has changed and is now nothing like what it was before. On this subject, for example, I suspect that the permeation of internet porn has changed people’s opinions on sex more than anything.
I agree on all of that, Grim, especially this:
" I suspect decades of heavy marijuana usage would change anyone."
More than most people are willing to admit.
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