Why is it that we consider predators our closest companions? I'm speaking primarily of cats and dogs. Oh sure, some people have a pet rat, or rabbit, or bird. And some people love their horses, I don't dispute it. But for our companion animals, the ones we give free rein in our own homes, people mainly turn to hunters. I wonder (as I certainly do not know) if it's because we can see ourselves in them, identify with them on some level, or if it's something else. Maybe it originally was because they managed the pests we cannot hunt ourselves, and helped up hunt the prey we can. But I can't help but wonder if there's something more there. We never bonded with goats, sheep, oxen, cows, chickens, or even pigs (as intelligent and full of personality as they are) in the way we did with cats and dogs.
I have to believe there was something that took them from "just another domesticated animal" to "furry family members". And I honestly cannot shake the feeling that their carnivorous/predatory nature has something to do with it. So I'd really like to hear the Hall's thoughts on the matter.
I would prefer to do without pets of any kind in my life. (If I want friends, there are people for that.)
ReplyDeleteBut, it turns out that when we don't have cats, we have mice. So we have cats. The kids love all their cute antics, and I don't have to find out that half the food in my pantry is contaminated.
Hans Jonas suggests (in _The Phenomenon of Life_, iirc) that predatory animals have a higher degree of consciousness than herbivores or similar. The argument is that they have to conceive of themselves and their relationship to the world in a different way to be able to recognize another animal as an animal, track it, kill it, and devour it. An herbivore only needs to recognize food and dangers, and to move away from them; less conscious proto-thought is needed.
ReplyDeleteSo it may be that we have a closer relationship with predators because their minds are more like our own. They have a higher degree of consciousness, which makes it easier to engage with them as individuals.
Now, that's a philosophical argument that may or may not hold up to experience. Certainly I've known many horses, and they've all had individuality and personality. I've also known some pretty semi-conscious dogs, especially the toy breeds like Yorkies. Some of the horses I've known have been whip-smart by comparison.
In part, with dogs, it may be that we've just been together so long. Some recent research shows that dogs have evolved to appeal to us emotionally.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.com/news/education-48665618
Among humans, there are sheep and there are sheepdogs.
ReplyDeleteIt may be that our carnivorous companions--our friends--are sheepdogs for us.
It's also the case that carnivores are more active and mentally and physically than plant eaters (there are exceptions to both, as noted above), and we appreciate the greater interest and the more active interaction.
Eric Hines
A prosaic difference: carnivores typically have voluntary control over their excretions, so they can lie in wait, while herbivores tend to let it go whenever the need hits them. Also, they can defend themselves. I wouldn't at all mind haven't mice and rabbits as pets, but if they can't be housetrained or protected from being eaten by the dogs and cats, they're a lot of trouble.
ReplyDeleteAs far as which ones I can most easily bond with, maybe I just empathize better with a predator. They're part of a team, with a function beyond passively providing fiber or meat.
I hadn't thought of the pooping thing, Tex. That actually carries a LOT of weight. After all, having a ruminant in the home means dodging/cleaning up landmines constantly. The dog will let you know he needs to go out and can wait till you let him. Cats are the easiest to train as their instincts to bury their waste to hide it from bigger predators means that even kittens pick up the litter box within a day of being shown where it is.
ReplyDeleteAnd we humans DO like our tidy homes to be poo-free.
Grim, I specifically thought of you when I mentioned horses. But I thought even you would concur that we don't bond with them in the same manner as dogs and cats. I can absolutely accept some of that is the problem of logistics of having a horse in the house (and the poo issue that Tex brought up), but I did also want to ask you about one thing in particular.
ReplyDeleteI've never grown up around horses, and other than a horseback ride on my honeymoon, never bothered with them. I think they're beautiful animals and have no aversion to them, but I also just don't have the background to have the slightest clue on this topic, so I need to defer to you. In your writing, you've explained about "sitting deep", "remaining calm", basically acting as the rational control mechanism for the horse. It really seemed as if in order to get the horse not to act according to its base instincts (flee from danger, panic, make foolish choices) you needed to have bonded with the animal so that it trusts you, and you need to demonstrate to the animal that you've got everything in hand. And that isn't a friendship bond to me. That seems more like a dependency. The horse CAN act in a rational manner, IF you take control and demonstrate the confidence and calming influence it needs. Does that bear out with your experience, or have I misread the situation?
And by the way, I do not for a moment think that horses are "stupid" or "without personality". I know too many people with too many funny horse stories to think that. I just have the impression from you that horses need a guiding hand from us in a way that dogs and (especially) cats don't.
I think that I would say that the particular way in which men and horses experience friendship is in that bond of trust and leadership. But dogs like to be led too, as a rule. A good dog really wants to please you, and is always looking to you for guidance on how to accomplish that.
ReplyDeleteHorses are not as good at thinking as dogs, though, that's for sure. Their ability to be rational is very real and quite deep, unless they get upset. Just as soon as they get upset, it all goes away.
Horses, dogs, and cats have uses other than being food. Cats catch rodents and dogs warn of intruders, and sometimes even fight. As Tex notes, that gives them an aspect of being "on our team," that pigs and rabbits lack.
ReplyDeleteThe tribes that best domesticated the horse on the Eurasian steppes regarded them primarily as food, with only special ones being used for riding to herd the other horses. Only gradually did they become useful in direct combat.
I agree that life is more genteel without animals. The dachshund has been declining for two years and is merely a burden at this point. He was mildly entertaining during his life but provided no other use.
I like cats. Some are warriors. Like this one. Samurai Cat- no hesitation, no fear, just pure heart and duty. This is what commitment looks like.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZa8FdYNw1o
Cats I have known.
One cat would growl at the window if an unknown was in the yard.
Another had a sense of humor, going into play mode if I made a cue noise. One would hunt vermin with me. Nothing is quicker to wrap up a wounded rat than a cat. One was fond of catching weasels.
Perfect little creatures with superb eyesight, speed and armory.
Plus they like to sit on a lap in front of a fire.
Someday I will have a dog, too, if the cats will allow it.
Personally, I like animals. I have had cats (currently do), I have had dogs. I have had fish and hermit crabs even. Those are more like living artwork than pets though. I've played with other people's ferrets; and I've ridden someone else's horse, camel, and elephant (not the same someone else). I think animals are wonderful. But the only ones I've ever bonded with are cats and dogs. Ferrets MIGHT be able to do it, and I'd be willing to bet the domesticated foxes out of Russia might do it as well, but I don't know if that's more because of the predator thing, or because they're basically cats and dogs (cousins at least) with a twist?
ReplyDeleteAnd a thought just occurred to me, it's too bad we don't have a falconer in the Hall, because I'd love to get their opinion on this, as I know the literature on falconry suggests bonds with the hunting birds. The more I think about this topic, the further convinced I am that it's something to do with predation. Like we respect fellow hunters or something. Horses are about the only flaw in this theory, so far. Bunnies, guinea pigs, hamsters and whatnot may be cute, but I just don't see the bonds with them they way I do with the hunters.
"Bunnies, guinea pigs, hamsters and whatnot may be cute, but I just don't see the bonds with them they way I do with the hunters."
ReplyDeleteMaybe we just don't bond with prey. Cats and dogs are close enough to puma's and wolves to command respect.
Should i let the cat out of the bag here? Oh why not people will find out sooner or later.
ReplyDeleteCats and dogs are 2nd density spirita undergoing graduation to 3rd density. And by 3rd density i mean a spirit capable of controlling a human avatar.
Around 50 % of humanity is classified as lvl1 and lvl2 souls basically promoted pets.
The more advanced souls have some psychic gifts. Lower level souls have a low mastery of this form so their ability to defend against poaession is smaller.
Maybe there's a part still left in a lot of us that knows if times got tough, we'd eat the guinea pigs, rabbits, etc. and would wait until things were *really* bad to eat a dog or cat.
ReplyDeleteRaven, that cat in the vid will graduate to third density after that body expires. Close proximity to human dynamics speeds up the spirit quality.
ReplyDeleteAs for the dog, was very hungry and decided to go for low hanging fruit. That or the bicycle squeaking triggered it due to human conditioning.
Going into hunting mode without barking is not a good sign.
Horses are used to herd mentality. You are the stallion or mare directing. For more equal relationship, non gelded stallions as war horses.
A rabbit will die of loneliness if it is left alone for too long, as they are like trees. They share a soul collective and have problems if the connection is broken. These animals are much like wifi relays, if there is not many of them, they start having problems. Then with rats, the opposite problem is when there is too many.
ReplyDeleteCats and dogs, even the wild ones, share many things in common with 3rd density humanity. Being apex predators, humanity tends to see them more as equals yes, but the utility of these predators are also useful for human survival.
This doesn't mean pets are superior than humans. If anything, it means humans are equal to the natural animal instinct. That is why the scriptural tradition says "God" divorced humanity, because people didn't measure up to Divine Standards and had betrayed the agreement/contract.
When that bible guy was turned into a beast, it was not a punishment by God but rather the removal of that entity's ability to ape man/Adam/Divine power. He returned to his true nature.
I hadn't thought of the pooping thing, Tex. That actually carries a LOT of weight.
ReplyDeleteYes it does. We have a new puppy (11 weeks), so I can testify to the truth of this.
Oh, good for you! What kind?
ReplyDelete