A US Air Force vet at the school's veteran center nearby actually did have a handgun, and moved to intervene along with a number of other veterans. Unfortunately, they obeyed lawful authorities who herded them back inside their own building for their safety.
The government is the only thing that kept American citizens from stopping this attack. We need to comprehensively rethink the role of citizens in dealing with these sorts of distributed threats. The pack response to a threat of this type is exactly the right one. It has worked time and again, sometimes in spite of the government's best efforts to prevent it from working.
If you are a pro-government sort, perhaps it will help to remember that the citizen is also a kind of officer of the government. We entrust the office of citizen with a number of functions central to the common peace and lawful order, such as voting for other officers of the government, serving on juries, and the power of making citizens' arrests.
This is the only office adequately enough distributed to answer a threat of this particular kind. It is also the least likely office to devolve into tyranny, because its power is the least concentrated and most distributed among the American people.
We can take these guys. They are generally weak, full of anger but without virtue. It is only the differential power created by stripping Americans of our means of self-defense that allows them to carry out these attacks. We can stop them.
UPDATE: Loyalty is a two-way street. The wounded Army vet who fought for our fellow citizens is being supported by his former unit mates. You are invited to participate.
This is from some of Chris' 5th Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment Brothers:He's going to have a lot of bills while his broken legs heal, which is going to put him out of work for a while. We need to take care of each other. He did his part.
"There is a PayPal set up to help Chris in his recovery. It's on our NPO 5/20 brotherhood set up to help our brothers we served with. The website is 520brotherhood.org the PayPal link is on the page just earmark for Chris Mintz and it all goes to help his recovery and bills"
http://520brotherhood.org/donate.html
There's also a "Go Fund Me" account that's been set up:
https://www.gofundme.com/375getwc
Your point about citizen arrests is well-taken.
ReplyDeleteEven in that Liberal haven of California, citizens are privileged to arrest, detain others, and use deadly force to the same extent as police officers, except that officers are allowed to make mistakes.
For example, a homeowner can arrest a person for breaking into his house, provided the person actually did break into the house.
Valerie
I have come to the reluctant conclusion the "authorities" are far more concerned about the risk to their thrones from empowered citizens than any casualties among the citizens.
ReplyDeleteIf he'd had the tools to go along with his brave heart and strong will, he might have prevented these crimes.
ReplyDeleteIf the Special Forces were allowed the tools to uphold their motto, well, that's what Demoncrats there to stop isn't it.
They are generally weak, full of anger but without virtue.
ReplyDeleteThat's not what you said about the 9/11 hijackers, when you said they had the Christian virtue of courage.
I forwarded the proposition that they lacked courage, since that's different from Willpower.
Unfortunately, they obeyed lawful authorities who herded them back inside their own building for their safety.
Good thing The Law is there to protect us. If only the Tea Party had Obeyed the Law, they would have been protected too. If only the British 11 year old girls had Obeyed the Islamic Law, the British police would have protected them too.
The Law is great. The Law is the Left. Obey or else.
I agree with Grim's point, but there is a problem here.
ReplyDeleteCops wear uniforms, so in a shooting they're looking for someone with a gun who is not wearing a uniform. If a half-dozen armed citizens show up at various times and places also looking for the shooter, what happens? If you are one of those citizens, how can you be sure the 5 armed strangers in jeans are not the shooter? How can the police know? A smart murderer could claim to be responding to the shooting as well.
I'm all for allowing concealed carry just about everywhere, and if I were carrying and heard something going down, I would respond. But the issue of identification is a serious one.
That's right. Of course, a smart killer could wear a uniform, too. Even if it was just a nonspecific "security guard" uniform with a badge, it might cause the police a momentary distraction that would allow him an advantage.
ReplyDeleteMuch of the answer has to do with learning to think about the actions of the individuals, not the presence of a gun. Most of the time it will be obvious from what they are doing whether they are killing innocents or trying to protect them. Like other cases of 'first responders,' the police can assume leadership once they arrive. The citizen becomes deputized as an auxiliary force in that case, but (as is usual in traffic accidents and other very common situations) they are likely to be the primary force on the scene for a while. It's something we as a society should plan for and train for, like we do with first responders in these other cases. (And of course, that will also reduce problems: the local police will know who their first responders are from the training. There will be personal recognition in many cases.)
That's not what you said about the 9/11 hijackers, when you said they had the Christian virtue of courage.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure I did not say that the 9/11 hijackers were possessed of Christian virtue. Courage is treated by Aristotle, who wrote some years before Christ. It is the virtue of doing what is fine and noble in war, while controlling the fear of death associated with war. You can read about it in book three of the Nicomachean Ethics.
The debatable point is whether what they did was fine or noble. We clearly have reason to think it was despicable and horrid. I think if you want to understand your enemy -- an important part of Sun Tzu's dictum -- you have to be able to see how the world appears to them. In their minds, they were doing something very fine and noble, involving the certainty of death in war, in the service of God. Assuming they are men like we are, possessed of minds that work the way ours do -- ours and Aristotle's -- then the virtue of courage is what they were displaying.
It is important to understand that for the purpose of defeating their kind. If you despise your enemies, you are failing to understand them, and in failing to understand them you are likely to be defeated by them. Loving your enemies is not just a Christian virtue(!), it is also a very practical policy for a soldier. Being able to view even your worst enemy sympathetically doesn't just make you a better person, it makes it more likely that you will be able to defeat your enemies.
Of course, there's a chance you might find yourself with fewer enemies if you behave this way, too.
It's something we as a society should plan for and train for ...
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think it's time to start reviving the old colonial-style militia, with some changes like accepting volunteers only, men and women serving equally, that sort of thing.
Anders Brevik wore a security uniform, that's how he got the kids running on the island to come to him, lured them in.
ReplyDeleteAs for whether anyone can tell, FBI and SWAT team snipers usually cannot, as shown in Waco 2 massacre. They'll shoot whomever they are told to shoot, as was the case at Ruby Ridge. They obey their orders and their orders don't particularly assume armed civilians are good guys.
People on the ground, though, can see the shooter's body language. A protector will look you in the eye and wave you down and point to the escape route. A hunter will not take cover or defensive action, but quickly proceed from one target to another, like a hawk or turret if nobody has counter attacked him. Rotating in place or while walking to get to the most targets. When they see a target, their body language becomes a predator's, hunting.
There are plenty of videos of the French ISIL trained AK users who gunned down one unarmed French policeman. Then again wearing black hoods and masques may be a little bit too obvious.
The critical weakness of this gun user is that he stopped to talk to people and asked them questions. That is a critical mistake, because it allows the other party to sneak in close and activate counter measures or take cover merely by stalling for time. And of course, whomever you ask the question of and shoot, everybody else will easily see what you are doing if in visual range.
In terms of Hasan at Fort Hood 1, it is far less lethal to do this social talk preparation than it is to merely shoot while the targets are congregated together and unarmed.
The reason why a critical mass of civilian defenders are needed to stomp out crime and terrorism is because a terrorist would never be able to afford the luxury of randomly going around and talking to people. Predators can sense when another predator is prowling around, even if no weapons are in sight. People call it gut instinct, situational awareness, yellow zone, or spider sense.
Even Hasan's instability was easily noticed by his co workers, but nobody was allowed to do anything because Democrat traitor Diversity Casey said so.
Assuming they are men like we are, possessed of minds that work the way ours do -- ours and Aristotle's -- then the virtue of courage is what they were displaying.
ReplyDeleteOverriding fear with another stronger fear (failing jihad and not obtaining houris) is not courage. Certainly not in the case where death offers more reward and less pain than living in infidel lands.
It is precisely because their minds are transparent, that they lack courage, whether Christian or Islamic versions.
Have the police identifying good guys from bad guys is a secondary problem. The first problem is having any good guys left to identify.
ReplyDeleteThese shootings always have the official reaction force showing up too late- this is a given, it is not going to change= the bad guys get to pick the slaughterhouse. The only timely response has to be the ones who are already there.
The "Go Fund Me" account is at $107K.
ReplyDelete$726K and counting this afternoon. OAF Nation is trying to push for a clean million.
ReplyDeleteThe first problem is having any good guys left to identify.
ReplyDeleteIf the Democrat dominated police unions stop shooting unarmed civilian citizen defenders like at Waco 2, or 1, or Ruby Ridge, perhaps there would be more of a critical mass out there.
Remember that Texas guy who killed 2 and wounded 1 robber with 3-4 shots? Extremely precise combat shooting, even if the enemies were bottlenecked by an entrance. The citizen shooter ran off. Why? It's illegal to be in that bar in Texas with a gun, let alone use it.
Society has rules and laws, it makes people obey. A citizen defender thus has to choose whether to Obey or Not Obey.