Um,
for ISIS?Becoming Mulan? Female Western Migrants to ISIS
Carolyn Hoyle, Alexandra Bradford and Ross Frenett, January 2015
Launching our Women and Extremism (WAE) programme, this report focuses on those women that have travelled from the West to ISIS held territory in support of the terrorist organisation. The first in a series of reports, this research draws on our database of known female migrants to ISIS and analyses their reasons for joining the group, the threat they pose and how to stem the flow of women joining ISIS.
That seems like a questionable decision for even the least spunky Disney Princess.
I think it's more like "The Prime of Miss Jean Brody" than any Disney movie. Jean Brody was a teacher at an all girls' school with all kinds of ideas, one of which was to support the Spanish Revolution. One of her students got all excited and went to Spain, where she got killed supporting the wrong side.
ReplyDeleteValerie
I don't care very much if they go to support their favored terrorist organization. I care very much about letting them come back. We shouldn't.
ReplyDeleteEric Hines
Not a fan of prodigal sons?
ReplyDeleteMust I be a fan of all prodigals if I'm a fan of some?
ReplyDeleteMust I disdain all prodigals if I disdain some?
Eric Hines
An observation worth extending to these cases. The relevant issue with the Prodigal Son was that he had realized he was wrong, and wanted to beg forgiveness as well as to come home.
ReplyDeleteDepending on their reasons for wanting to come back, they could be extremely helpful. Someone who went with Disney-like illusions and was horrified at the actuality might be a useful voice in American Muslim communities.
There are exceptions to nearly everything. To the extent these people have intel value, I'm interested in extracting that value. I don't buy the illusion bit in grown adults. In any event, these aren't prodigals. They're terrorist supporters and terrorist wannabes.
ReplyDeleteIf Jeffrey Dahmer had realized the horror of his illusions, should he have been welcomed back? The inmates of the New Mexico State Penitentiary riot?
Eric Hines
I don't buy the illusion bit in grown adults.
ReplyDeleteReally? That's a huge difference between us. I think very many fully grown men and women are operating under illusions about the world. Sometimes they come right when the consequences get ugly enough, but sometimes they hang tighter to the things they want to believe than to life or health.
I should have been clearer. I don't buy the illusion bit in grown adults as an excuse, absent a showing of mental incapacity. Certainly people can fool themselves. That doesn't absolve them of responsibility for their actions; it only informs the sanctions to be applied.
ReplyDeleteEric Hines
That doesn't absolve them of responsibility for their actions; it only informs the sanctions to be applied.
ReplyDeleteOK, that's more in line with how I see the world.
There may be a thorny issue about refusing to let them come home, actually, now that I think about it. The only ways to lose your citizenship are listed here. The only ones that possibly apply are:
a) serving in the armies of a foreign state,
b) conviction of treason and/or trying to overthrow the United States.
Now we don't recognize ISIS as a state, so (a) doesn't apply. ISIS is not currently trying to overthrow the government of the United States, nor is it formally waging war against us (nor would we recognize a declaration of war as valid, since we don't consider them a state), so (b) isn't an option.
Since we can't strip them of citizenship under the law, we can't refuse to let them come home. This is because Trop v. Dulles ruled that banishment from the United States is unconstitutional for native-born citizens unless they voluntarily relinquished their citizenship or became involved with "a foreign nation."
Plus, of course, they're constitutionally entitled to a trial at which they can face their accusers. Even if we did recognize ISIS as a state, you'd have to let them come home in order to try them at court martial before you could banish them.
1) The Daesh thinks they're a State; that's close enough for me.
ReplyDelete2) As usual, though, I'm arguing principle, not legalisms.
Eric Hines
Sometimes you have to do both. If the strategy you're advocating is actually illegal, that's a problem.
ReplyDeleteLegally, is it possible to not allow them to return. Yes. The government actually does this all the time, and SCOTUS has allowed it. At the US border, they do not have to allow you to enter (this includes clearing customs at international airports). They have routinely held US citizens at the border, and can legally do so indefinitely. Particularly if you have an encrypted hard drive and they want to see the contents. It has been ruled that they can hold you or deny entry if you do not comply with their requests to provide access to that data. I think it's a legal abomination, but clearly I am in the minority here.
ReplyDeleteExample:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/welcome-to-the-united-states-discriminated-detained-searched-interrogated-special-report/
You can find others on the web quite easily.
If the strategy you're advocating is actually illegal, that's a problem.
ReplyDeleteSometimes violent civil disobedience is necessary, as Robert Hoag has suggested.
Eric Hines
I agree that it is. But it's a problem, even when it's called for.
ReplyDelete