Niven addressed that "logical consistency" issue when he pointed out that the only stable configuration for a universe where past-modifying time-travel is possible is one in which it never gets invented.
Is "logical consistency" pan-universal? Or is it only universal in our universe?
What would constitute stability in a universe that had past-modifying time-travel and it got invented--in the perceptions of those in that universe, not what would it look like to us, on the outside looking in?
Stability, as viewed from the inside, would be largely invisible. Unless you knowingly interacted with a time traveler, nothing would seem odd at all, and even then nothing would seem unstable to you. It's from outside that you'd "see" flipping between different timelines.
FWIW, my favorite time-travel story is Dinosaur Beach.
James, the only Dinosaur Beach books I see on Amazon are kids' books. I suspect you're referencing something else.
The funniest time travel was in Harry Potter, I thought. In the story the video references, Hermione (a complete nerd if you aren't familiar) borrows a time travel amulet in order to take two classes at the same time. It ends up getting used for other purposes, of course, but the initial premise was funny.
I time travelled myself recently, in a mundane way, and got to spend 29 hours on St Patty's day this year. Sadly, the airline did not serve Guinness.
Before Niven's hypothesis was Asimov's novel The End of Eternity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Eternity
exploring some of the same idea, which much more recently was blatently stolen for the streaming video series from Marvel, *LOKI*. The guys that invent time travel set up a giant bureaucracy devoted to ensuring that their own history and preferences are privileged and protected, while free will still exists but gets corrected or "pruned" by bureaucrats enforcing the system's rules. Even so, philosophically, it seems that free will and time travel can't co-exist.
He's wrong about the restraint on free will in the Harry Potter example. You have free will, and you can change the path. He's violating relativity and looking at it as a linear system, when in fact it is not- that's how we *experience* it. It's a warping of time/space, but understand, the "timeline" is just a tool for us to understand, a model- it is not the reality any more than a 2D drawing of a 3D object is the thing itself.
Niven addressed that "logical consistency" issue when he pointed out that the only stable configuration for a universe where past-modifying time-travel is possible is one in which it never gets invented.
ReplyDeleteIs "logical consistency" pan-universal? Or is it only universal in our universe?
ReplyDeleteWhat would constitute stability in a universe that had past-modifying time-travel and it got invented--in the perceptions of those in that universe, not what would it look like to us, on the outside looking in?
Eric Hines
Stability, as viewed from the inside, would be largely invisible. Unless you knowingly interacted with a time traveler, nothing would seem odd at all, and even then nothing would seem unstable to you. It's from outside that you'd "see" flipping between different timelines.
ReplyDeleteFWIW, my favorite time-travel story is Dinosaur Beach.
Crichton's Timeline is a good story.
ReplyDeleteJames, the only Dinosaur Beach books I see on Amazon are kids' books. I suspect you're referencing something else.
The funniest time travel was in Harry Potter, I thought. In the story the video references, Hermione (a complete nerd if you aren't familiar) borrows a time travel amulet in order to take two classes at the same time. It ends up getting used for other purposes, of course, but the initial premise was funny.
I time travelled myself recently, in a mundane way, and got to spend 29 hours on St Patty's day this year. Sadly, the airline did not serve Guinness.
Keith Laumer's book
ReplyDeleteBefore Niven's hypothesis was Asimov's novel The End of Eternity
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Eternity
exploring some of the same idea, which much more recently was blatently stolen for the streaming video series from Marvel, *LOKI*. The guys that invent time travel set up a giant bureaucracy devoted to ensuring that their own history and preferences are privileged and protected, while free will still exists but gets corrected or "pruned" by bureaucrats enforcing the system's rules.
Even so, philosophically, it seems that free will and time travel can't co-exist.
Thanks, james. Looks like it's out of print, but Laumer has a lot of interesting stuff out.
ReplyDeleteHe's wrong about the restraint on free will in the Harry Potter example. You have free will, and you can change the path. He's violating relativity and looking at it as a linear system, when in fact it is not- that's how we *experience* it. It's a warping of time/space, but understand, the "timeline" is just a tool for us to understand, a model- it is not the reality any more than a 2D drawing of a 3D object is the thing itself.
ReplyDelete