Once upon a time we took your word. We wagered our lives on it. Some killed for it, and still carry the weight of that; some bear scars and great wounds; some died.
I suppose there's some chance that's a guilty thought of his and he now thinks he was wrong - and thus, made a lot of other people wrong as well. But it may also just be hearing 10,000 repetitions of "unjustified invasion of..." always being followed by "Iraq." Or even just the association Invasion=Iraq.
The second thoughts on Vietnam were mostly negative, but the third thoughts decades later are more positive. I wasn't around for other wars and don't have a sense what second vs third thoughts were about Korea, the WW's or the Civil War. I always had the belief that going into Iraq was justified because of the treaty violations and the suspicious behavior. I always wanted to be able to get to the question of "Is this wise?" I don't think America is capable of getting to that second question anymore. We fight so long and hard about justified? that we don't even get to the latter question. For example, Kosovo, Somalia, Syria. We can no longer even get to wise/not wise.
Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the US has been revealed to be a rogue, terrorist state. Nearly every war since The Fall has been initiated by the US, and always against countries that were at peace with us and our allies. Serbia is the start of our current spasm of aggression, but it goes back deep into our history, at least to the Mexican War.
War is the drug of choice of our Ruling Class, which is why they revile Trump, the outsider. They cannot even let go of Somalia. Somalia is our longest war, not Afghanistan, and it will be 30 years long this winter. Trump ordered SOCOM out of Somalia, but they just moved across the border. Biden has now put them back into Somalia, so we can expect another 30 years of warfare there.
Some argue that our longest war is the 300-year campaign to clear out the American Indians. That was a genocidal war, in which women and children were legitimate targets, sort of like the fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo, and the demolitions of Fallujah and Raqqa.
I'm reading in places that GWB is arguably the worst President, ever. I don't think that's anywhere close to being accurate, or fair. I think the problem is that as a consequence of external events, he set things in motion that he is accountable for, and he has accepted responsibility for these things without trying to deflect. At least, I cannot think of instances where he's deflected or has been disingenuous with words. Unlike some others that immediately spring to mind, with painful bitterness.
I had a very good senior executive, a CEO, once confide that the important and pivotal decisions he was responsible had really already been made by the time the cases were presented to him for 'go ahead'. But that didn't always make them the right decisions, across the coast of time. I don't believe that GWB is corrupt anywhere near on the scale of The Chosen One or the Big Guy, and I do believe his conscience preys on him. But I also know that he goes to the DFW airport with his wife Laura to welcome service personnel home from their foreign missions, without telling the press.
@ sykes - I suppose if you define "rogue," "terrorist," "peace," "allies," "aggression," "genocidal" or whatever according to emotional, fun characterisations rather than intellectual ones you can say such fun stuff and feel smarter than other people, sure. But the extremity of your statement, unable to even consider that other national players might have had some influence on world events reveals you as an Old Guy who stopped thinking thirty years ago. I hope I'm not going there myself at 69. It has been known to happen.
Set yourself the intellectual task of reading for six months people who disagree with you. Then get back to us. I have done that four times in my life and it is painful. Perhaps I am due again. But it has been valuable every time. I suppose I should thank you for raising that possibility for me. I hope I can get by with just one more time. Grim, who is younger, probably has at least two, the poor bastard. Tex is almost my age and can probably get by with one. (Send a postcard from Oaxaca or whatever dear, please.)
My joke has been "the solution to everything is to read more CS Lewis." There are alternatives, but I think that one is probably your best choice.
"...the intellectual task of reading for six months people who disagree with you.... Grim, who is younger, probably has at least two, the poor bastard."
Grammercy for thy task, but where pray tell would I find anyone else to read?
I think the big mistakes were two- First, thinking the US populous was up for and could handle a generational unconventional war. The second was not really being honest about what we were committing to, and what other ends we had in mind. There was a reasonable argument to be made, but it was never held up.
I suppose there's some chance that's a guilty thought of his and he now thinks he was wrong - and thus, made a lot of other people wrong as well. But it may also just be hearing 10,000 repetitions of "unjustified invasion of..." always being followed by "Iraq." Or even just the association Invasion=Iraq.
ReplyDeleteThe second thoughts on Vietnam were mostly negative, but the third thoughts decades later are more positive. I wasn't around for other wars and don't have a sense what second vs third thoughts were about Korea, the WW's or the Civil War. I always had the belief that going into Iraq was justified because of the treaty violations and the suspicious behavior. I always wanted to be able to get to the question of "Is this wise?" I don't think America is capable of getting to that second question anymore. We fight so long and hard about justified? that we don't even get to the latter question. For example, Kosovo, Somalia, Syria. We can no longer even get to wise/not wise.
Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the US has been revealed to be a rogue, terrorist state. Nearly every war since The Fall has been initiated by the US, and always against countries that were at peace with us and our allies. Serbia is the start of our current spasm of aggression, but it goes back deep into our history, at least to the Mexican War.
ReplyDeleteWar is the drug of choice of our Ruling Class, which is why they revile Trump, the outsider. They cannot even let go of Somalia. Somalia is our longest war, not Afghanistan, and it will be 30 years long this winter. Trump ordered SOCOM out of Somalia, but they just moved across the border. Biden has now put them back into Somalia, so we can expect another 30 years of warfare there.
Some argue that our longest war is the 300-year campaign to clear out the American Indians. That was a genocidal war, in which women and children were legitimate targets, sort of like the fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo, and the demolitions of Fallujah and Raqqa.
I'm reading in places that GWB is arguably the worst President, ever. I don't think that's anywhere close to being accurate, or fair. I think the problem is that as a consequence of external events, he set things in motion that he is accountable for, and he has accepted responsibility for these things without trying to deflect. At least, I cannot think of instances where he's deflected or has been disingenuous with words. Unlike some others that immediately spring to mind, with painful bitterness.
ReplyDeleteI had a very good senior executive, a CEO, once confide that the important and pivotal decisions he was responsible had really already been made by the time the cases were presented to him for 'go ahead'. But that didn't always make them the right decisions, across the coast of time. I don't believe that GWB is corrupt anywhere near on the scale of The Chosen One or the Big Guy, and I do believe his conscience preys on him. But I also know that he goes to the DFW airport with his wife Laura to welcome service personnel home from their foreign missions, without telling the press.
@ sykes - I suppose if you define "rogue," "terrorist," "peace," "allies," "aggression," "genocidal" or whatever according to emotional, fun characterisations rather than intellectual ones you can say such fun stuff and feel smarter than other people, sure. But the extremity of your statement, unable to even consider that other national players might have had some influence on world events reveals you as an Old Guy who stopped thinking thirty years ago. I hope I'm not going there myself at 69. It has been known to happen.
ReplyDeleteSet yourself the intellectual task of reading for six months people who disagree with you. Then get back to us. I have done that four times in my life and it is painful. Perhaps I am due again. But it has been valuable every time. I suppose I should thank you for raising that possibility for me. I hope I can get by with just one more time. Grim, who is younger, probably has at least two, the poor bastard. Tex is almost my age and can probably get by with one. (Send a postcard from Oaxaca or whatever dear, please.)
My joke has been "the solution to everything is to read more CS Lewis." There are alternatives, but I think that one is probably your best choice.
"...the intellectual task of reading for six months people who disagree with you.... Grim, who is younger, probably has at least two, the poor bastard."
ReplyDeleteGrammercy for thy task, but where pray tell would I find anyone else to read?
I think the big mistakes were two- First, thinking the US populous was up for and could handle a generational unconventional war. The second was not really being honest about what we were committing to, and what other ends we had in mind. There was a reasonable argument to be made, but it was never held up.
ReplyDelete