These, Socrates, said Parmenides, are a few, and only a few of thedifficulties in which we are involved if ideas really are and we determineeach one of them to be an absolute unity. He who hears what may besaid against them will deny the very existence of them-and even ifthey do exist, he will say that they must of necessity be unknownto man; and he will seem to have reason on his side, and as we wereremarking just now, will be very difficult to convince; a man mustbe gifted with very considerable ability before he can learn thateverything has a class and an absolute essence; and still more remarkablewill he be who discovers all these things for himself, and havingthoroughly investigated them is able to teach them to others.I agree with you, Parmenides, said Socrates; and what you say is verymuch to my mind.And yet, Socrates, said Parmenides, if a man, fixing his attentionon these and the like difficulties, does away with ideas of thingsand will not admit that every individual thing has its own determinateidea which is always one and the same, he will have nothing on whichhis mind can rest; and so he will utterly destroy the power of reasoning,as you seem to me to have particularly noted.
Parmenides is suggesting that, without the Forms as at least objects of thought, we cannot reason at all. He's also telling us something about the character of a Form: it is characterized by an essence, which is absolute and unitary. Not just some things of especially high and noble character must have Forms, but anything at all.
Now we still have the difficulty of understanding whether these Forms are metaphysical or psychological. Parmenides' defense of them is that we need them to think; and if that is true, it is possible that the world doesn't have Forms in it, but rather that they are the way that our minds work. A thing then doesn't have an essence, but is assigned one by us. In this way, everything becomes an artifact, in a way: the thing in the world is not, but the thing as it exists in our mind is an artifact that we have made and assigned a purpose, our thought an artifact just as surely as if we had built a fork out of wood. We made the thing out of raw materials we found in the world, and assigned it a purpose to serve us.
In that case, then, telos is real enough; but all the telos is human-made, and not inherent in the world. (This is roughly the pre-Socratic philosopher Protagoras' position: "Man is the measure of all things," as it is often given.)
Aristotle will not believe this; his assigning Form as not-separate from the things means that the form really is in the thing. We learn the form by examining the things; our minds grasp it from grappling with the things we encounter. Aristotle's Form is metaphysical, and also physical (but not material). Plato's, as presented in the Republic, is metaphysical but not physical. Parmenides isn't being clear about what he takes the nature of the Forms to be.
Socrates confesses that he has no idea how to proceed under the circumstances. Parmenides tells him this is because he is young, and as yet untrained in rhetoric and debate. If he developed skills in this kind of discourse, it would help him work out his philosophical ideas in a way that he is not ready to do yet.
Socrates asks him how to do this, and Parmenides gives a response he surely meant to be helpful.
I mean, for example, that in the case of this very hypothesis of Zeno'sabout the many, you should inquire not only what will be the consequencesto the many in relation to themselves and to the one, and to the onein relation to itself and the many, on the hypothesis of the beingof the many, but also what will be the consequences to the one andthe many in their relation to themselves and to each other, on theopposite hypothesis. Or, again, if likeness is or is not, what willbe the consequences in either of these cases to the subjects of thehypothesis, and to other things, in relation both to themselves andto one another, and so of unlikeness; and the same holds good of motionand rest, of generation and destruction, and even of being and not-being.In a word, when you suppose anything to be or not to be, or to bein any way affected, you must look at the consequences in relationto the thing itself, and to any other things which you choose-to eachof them singly, to more than one, and to all; and so of other things,you must look at them in relation to themselves and to anything elsewhich you suppose either to be or not to be, if you would train yourselfperfectly and see the real truth.
Socrates finds this answer as mystifying as most readers do when they first encounter it. He asks for a practical example to help him understand how this process is supposed to work.
That, Parmenides, is a tremendous business of which you speak, andI do not quite understand you; will you take some hypothesis and gothrough the steps?-then I shall apprehend you better.That, Socrates, is a serious task to impose on a man of my years.
Nevertheless, that will be the business of the next part. Zeno and others present join in the request to hear Parmenides walk through an example at length, so that they can better understand how to perform this sort of inquiry.
UPDATE: If your response to reading Parmenides' answer was similar to this, don't feel bad. It's perfectly normal.
Parmenides' defense of them is that we need them to think; and if that is true, it is possible that the world doesn't have Forms in it, but rather that they are the way that our minds work. A thing then doesn't have an essence, but is assigned one by us.
ReplyDeleteHaving objected to the introduction of counting as an aid or example in the debate, I hesitate to introduce a similar concept from another arena of math. But Euclidean plane geometry explicitly takes just this approach. AXIOMS -- the point, the line, the plane -- are idealized instances of things in the world. But the real world has extent and width and dimensions generally. The IDEA of a point has no such measure.
We enjoy other complex real systems built up from axiomatic or "self evidence" truths. Capital-T Truths. Equality. Rights. Property. The Purpose of Governments. ...
Seems to me the trick is not to find a definition of " a things is" that encompasses only one thing, or all of everything. A valuable trick instead is to identify and define the few, the most minimal set, of "things" that must be understood as GIVENS. Upon these we go forward to derive most nearly all of other "things" as consistent theorems, all built upon the original axioms.
That's an interesting proposal. Let's see if you can develop it as we proceed through the dialogue as an alternative to Parmendies and Socrates.
ReplyDeletePerhaps one could compare it to the Greeley correspondence?.
ReplyDeleteIt seemed to me that P. was saying, excessively verbosely, that a theory had to be thought-out, and its opposite also thought-through, to see what the consequences were of the theory and of its contradiction.
That's right, of course.
ReplyDelete