I become more convinced every day that liberals support gun confiscation because shared beliefs put them in constant contact with people who are angry, unstable, and potentially violent. This is mild. Check out the background on the YouTube shooter before it gets memoryholed.
The tweet is an excellent example of a longstanding claim of mine. It is not danger that they hate, it is those who think guns are okay.
They keep hinting that we should "get it" that guns are dangerous and no one should want them and therefore the people who do have them are suspect. Because their own beliefs are the product of hints, fashions, and unwritten rules,* they think that our lack of responsiveness to this must mean we are stupid or socially problematic, somehow. They hint harder; we still don't fall in line, like they do when a late-night host rolls his eyes.
Therefore, somewhat reluctantly, we-didn't-want-to-have-to-get-to-this-point-but-you-made-us, they insist on laws. Not anything that will work. That's irrelevant. Just large statements and inconveniences that communicate even more strongly: guns are wrong, dangerous, and icky, and therefore only unthinking or violent people want them. Every time there is a fitting incident, their goal is not safety but cultural defeat of those who disagree with them. they are certain, without evidence, that if people started thinking like them and not wanting guns, it would all eventually work.
Well if everyone agreed with them, then maybe, though I have my doubts. But in a situation where criminals voluntarily disarming is uh, unlikely, then someone is going to have to protect themselves somehow. Actual safety is irrelevant. Cultural victory is the point, because they think that is the only sure road to safety. That it is also beneficial to them getting stuff and having power, they have strong incentive not to see.
The cultural victory the left seeks is a mountain of skulls. The list of mass state murder by "progressives" goes on and on.
Eventually, ordinary people refuse to see what is in their "interests", and actively resist becoming slaves, so it becomes necessary to kill them. And what is forcing one man to work, so that another may reap the reward, but slavery?
If every gunowner in the country voluntarily surrendered their weapons, the left would hate us, not less, but more. In the end, they are not "coming for your guns". They are coming for YOU.
"The list of mass state murder by "progressives" goes on and on."
Yes, that's right. I've taken to suggesting to those who want to compare us to European countries murder rates, that to be fair, they need to count the millions of deaths caused by political unrest and war in the last century, vs. our murder rate in same. Somehow we've had remarkably little tyranny and mass murder in the last couple centuries.
Douglas: I've taken to suggesting to those who want to compare us to European countries murder rates......
There are a lot of statistics out there which make the US-European murder comparison not what the progressive narrative tells us it is, without referring to the previous century of Europe's politics of mass murder. The white murder victim rate, and thus the white murder rate, is lower than the murder rate for a number of European countries. CDC: QuickStats: Age-Adjusted Rates for Homicides,* by Race/Ethnicity†— United States, 1999–2015 During 1999–2014, a general decline in homicide trends for non-Hispanic white, non-Hispanic black, and Hispanic populations occurred, followed by a significant increase in the rates for all three groups between 2014 and 2015. In 2015, homicide rates were 5.7 deaths per 100,000 for the total population, 20.9 for non-Hispanic blacks, 4.9 for Hispanics, and2.6 for non-Hispanic whites.
The US white homicide rate of 2.6/100,000 residents is lower than that for 8 European countries. List of countries by intentional homicide rate Country Homicide Rate Russia 11.31 Lithuania 5.98 Ukraine 4.36 Latvia 4.11 Belarus 3.58 Estonia 3.2 Moldova 3.19 Montenegro 2.72 Albania 2.28 Belgium 1.95 Bulgaria 1.8 Finland 1.6 Kosovo 1.6 Macedonia 1.59 France 1.58 Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.5 Romania 1.49 Hungary 1.48 Slovenia 1.21 Sweden 1.15 Serbia 1.13 Denmark 0.99 Portugal 0.97 Malta 0.96 United Kingdom 0.92 Iceland 0.91 Slovakia 0.88 Croatia 0.87 Greece 0.85 Germany 0.85 Italy 0.78 Czech Republic 0.75 Poland 0.74 Luxembourg 0.72 Switzerland 0.69 Spain 0.66 Ireland 0.64 Netherlands 0.61 Norway 0.56 Austria 0.51
For those Eurosneers who tell us we should focus on WESTERN EUROPE only, my reply is that not only were Russia and the above former Communist countries part of Europe, they were governed by an ideology created by a Western European named Karl Marx.
Regarding homicide versus murder, I am using those interchangeably.
Gringo's data get even more stark (I don't have immediate access to the data) when the US homicide rate--regardless of demographic--is broken out by...region. The large bulk of US homicides occur in those urban areas with the strictest gun control laws--and in DC, when the Supremes began enforcing the 2nd Amendment, the homicide rate started falling off.
A further point is that the "progressive" narrative of "fewer guns-less murder" does NOT hold up when looking at European stats. Yet the progs inform us that Europe is the model. When we correlate gun possession per capita versus homicide rates for the Europe ( 39 countries) , we get a correlation of -0.24. More guns, less murder. Fewer guns, less murder. Estimated number of guns per capita by country. (See previous comment for homicide/murder link.) For an illustration of this, take a look at 1) the European countries with the 10 highest homicide rates, and then 2)the European countries with the 10 highest gun possession rates. There is only one country that is in the top 10 for both gun possession rates and homicide rates.
Country Homicide Rate Guns per 100 Residents Russia 11.31 8.9 Lithuania 5.98 0.7 Ukraine 4.36 6.6 Latvia 4.11 19 Belarus 3.58 7.3 Estonia 3.2 9.2 Moldova 3.19 7.1 Montenegro 2.72 23.1 Albania 2.28 8.6 Belgium 1.95 17.2
Country Homicide Rate Guns per 100 Residents Serbia 1.13 58.21 Norway 0.56 31.3 France 1.58 31.2 Austria 0.51 30.4 Germany 0.85 30.3 Iceland 0.91 30.3 Finland 1.6 27.3 Switzerland 0.69 24.45 Macedonia 1.59 24.1 Montenegro 2.72 23.1
Russia is first in murder rate, but 25th in gun possession rate. Lithuania is 2nd in murder rate, but 38th - tied for last- in gun possession rate. Serbia is first in gun possession rate, but 20th in murder rate. Norway is 2nd in gun possession rate, but 38th- next to lowest- in murder rate. Only one country- Montenegro- is in the top 10 for both murder rate and gun possession rate.
When the progs tell us that Europe is the model for "fewer guns- less murder," they are cherry picking the data. Europe isn't just France, Germany, and Great Britain. For Europe as a whole, the "fewer guns-less murder " narrative doesn't hold. So why should it hold for the United States?
Disclaimer: As a childhood friend was killed in a gun accident with his older brother, I have no love for guns. But the onus was on the father for letting his children have easy access to guns without teaching his children about gun safety.
The new research also suggests a paradox: While blacks are significantly more likely than whites to be gun homicide victims, blacks are only about half as likely as whites to have a firearm in their home (41% vs. 19%). Hispanics are less likely than blacks to be gun homicide victims and half as likely as whites to have a gun at home (20%).
Perhaps the "paradox" is that the "fewer guns-less murder" narrative doesn't hold. Just perhaps.
While blacks are much more likely to be homicide victims or homicide offenders than whites, they are also less likely than whites to own guns. The differences between blacks and whites regarding gun possession and homicide is one more example that the "fewer guns-less murder" narrative doesn't hold. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Would this be "settled science?" No, that can't be. Wingnuts are anti-science, doncha' know.
Stats mean nothing to the left. The Men In Charge have an agenda. The "useful idiots" operate from an emotional standpoint. Ever wonder why 95 percent of entertainers are left? My theory is that singing, acting etc are emotional professions, not rational-thus biased in favor of the left. Same thing in converse, engineers tend toward the conservative- their worldview is based on a logical assessment.
therefore, I do not believe the average leftist can have their mind changed a bit by any statistical analysis. The things that might work are firsthand conversion AKA "mug a liberal, get a conservative", or simple memes creating severe cognitive dissonance.
raven Stats mean nothing to the left. The Men In Charge have an agenda. The "useful idiots" operate from an emotional standpoint.
I would agree that lefties have a greater tendency to operate from an emotional viewpoint- and a group-think viewpoint. However- how many lefties have been confronted with this data? Not many, I suspect.
One "emotional" approach would be to use the data to ridicule lefties as ignorant fools. No one- especially a lefty- likes to be ridiculed for being ignorant- especially since a BIG part of the lefty narrative is that lefties are the wise, knowledgeable, folk compared to those ignorant knuckle-dragging troglodytes on the right.
All good info, though you can quibble about some of the specific applications. The urban/rural difference in murder rates is even more stark (I did a little research on this a while back)- it's really almost a neighborhood by neighborhood phenomenon.
But most of that is too complex and too subtle to get through to people quickly, for instance on Twitter.
One item that I've been using a lot (and getting exactly zero reply to) is a recent article by Charles C.W. Cooke about how Vermont has tons of guns, almost no state gun law, and very little gun crime. How can that be, if you believe all the 'guns are the problem' hype?
I become more convinced every day that liberals support gun confiscation because shared beliefs put them in constant contact with people who are angry, unstable, and potentially violent. This is mild. Check out the background on the YouTube shooter before it gets memoryholed.
ReplyDeleteThe tweet is an excellent example of a longstanding claim of mine. It is not danger that they hate, it is those who think guns are okay.
ReplyDeleteThey keep hinting that we should "get it" that guns are dangerous and no one should want them and therefore the people who do have them are suspect. Because their own beliefs are the product of hints, fashions, and unwritten rules,* they think that our lack of responsiveness to this must mean we are stupid or socially problematic, somehow. They hint harder; we still don't fall in line, like they do when a late-night host rolls his eyes.
Therefore, somewhat reluctantly, we-didn't-want-to-have-to-get-to-this-point-but-you-made-us, they insist on laws. Not anything that will work. That's irrelevant. Just large statements and inconveniences that communicate even more strongly: guns are wrong, dangerous, and icky, and therefore only unthinking or violent people want them. Every time there is a fitting incident, their goal is not safety but cultural defeat of those who disagree with them. they are certain, without evidence, that if people started thinking like them and not wanting guns, it would all eventually work.
Well if everyone agreed with them, then maybe, though I have my doubts. But in a situation where criminals voluntarily disarming is uh, unlikely, then someone is going to have to protect themselves somehow. Actual safety is irrelevant. Cultural victory is the point, because they think that is the only sure road to safety. That it is also beneficial to them getting stuff and having power, they have strong incentive not to see.
ReplyDeleteThe cultural victory the left seeks is a mountain of skulls.
The list of mass state murder by "progressives" goes on and on.
Eventually, ordinary people refuse to see what is in their "interests", and actively resist becoming slaves, so it becomes necessary to kill them.
And what is forcing one man to work, so that another may reap the reward, but slavery?
If every gunowner in the country voluntarily surrendered their weapons, the left would hate us, not less, but more.
In the end, they are not "coming for your guns".
They are coming for YOU.
"The list of mass state murder by "progressives" goes on and on."
ReplyDeleteYes, that's right. I've taken to suggesting to those who want to compare us to European countries murder rates, that to be fair, they need to count the millions of deaths caused by political unrest and war in the last century, vs. our murder rate in same. Somehow we've had remarkably little tyranny and mass murder in the last couple centuries.
Douglas:
ReplyDeleteI've taken to suggesting to those who want to compare us to European countries murder rates......
There are a lot of statistics out there which make the US-European murder comparison not what the progressive narrative tells us it is, without referring to the previous century of Europe's politics of mass murder.
The white murder victim rate, and thus the white murder rate, is lower than the murder rate for a number of European countries.
CDC: QuickStats: Age-Adjusted Rates for Homicides,* by Race/Ethnicity†— United States, 1999–2015
During 1999–2014, a general decline in homicide trends for non-Hispanic white, non-Hispanic black, and Hispanic populations occurred, followed by a significant increase in the rates for all three groups between 2014 and 2015. In 2015, homicide rates were 5.7 deaths per 100,000 for the total population, 20.9 for non-Hispanic blacks, 4.9 for Hispanics, and2.6 for non-Hispanic whites.
The US white homicide rate of 2.6/100,000 residents is lower than that for 8 European countries. List of countries by intentional homicide rate
Country Homicide Rate
Russia 11.31
Lithuania 5.98
Ukraine 4.36
Latvia 4.11
Belarus 3.58
Estonia 3.2
Moldova 3.19
Montenegro 2.72
Albania 2.28
Belgium 1.95
Bulgaria 1.8
Finland 1.6
Kosovo 1.6
Macedonia 1.59
France 1.58
Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.5
Romania 1.49
Hungary 1.48
Slovenia 1.21
Sweden 1.15
Serbia 1.13
Denmark 0.99
Portugal 0.97
Malta 0.96
United Kingdom 0.92
Iceland 0.91
Slovakia 0.88
Croatia 0.87
Greece 0.85
Germany 0.85
Italy 0.78
Czech Republic 0.75
Poland 0.74
Luxembourg 0.72
Switzerland 0.69
Spain 0.66
Ireland 0.64
Netherlands 0.61
Norway 0.56
Austria 0.51
For those Eurosneers who tell us we should focus on WESTERN EUROPE only, my reply is that not only were Russia and the above former Communist countries part of Europe, they were governed by an ideology created by a Western European named Karl Marx.
Regarding homicide versus murder, I am using those interchangeably.
Gringo's data get even more stark (I don't have immediate access to the data) when the US homicide rate--regardless of demographic--is broken out by...region. The large bulk of US homicides occur in those urban areas with the strictest gun control laws--and in DC, when the Supremes began enforcing the 2nd Amendment, the homicide rate started falling off.
ReplyDeleteEric Hines
A further point is that the "progressive" narrative of "fewer guns-less murder" does NOT hold up when looking at European stats. Yet the progs inform us that Europe is the model.
ReplyDeleteWhen we correlate gun possession per capita versus homicide rates for the Europe ( 39 countries) , we get a correlation of -0.24. More guns, less murder. Fewer guns, less murder. Estimated number of guns per capita by country. (See previous comment for homicide/murder link.)
For an illustration of this, take a look at 1) the European countries with the 10 highest homicide rates, and then 2)the European countries with the 10 highest gun possession rates. There is only one country that is in the top 10 for both gun possession rates and homicide rates.
Country Homicide Rate Guns per 100 Residents
Russia 11.31 8.9
Lithuania 5.98 0.7
Ukraine 4.36 6.6
Latvia 4.11 19
Belarus 3.58 7.3
Estonia 3.2 9.2
Moldova 3.19 7.1
Montenegro 2.72 23.1
Albania 2.28 8.6
Belgium 1.95 17.2
Country Homicide Rate Guns per 100 Residents
Serbia 1.13 58.21
Norway 0.56 31.3
France 1.58 31.2
Austria 0.51 30.4
Germany 0.85 30.3
Iceland 0.91 30.3
Finland 1.6 27.3
Switzerland 0.69 24.45
Macedonia 1.59 24.1
Montenegro 2.72 23.1
Russia is first in murder rate, but 25th in gun possession rate. Lithuania is 2nd in murder rate, but 38th - tied for last- in gun possession rate. Serbia is first in gun possession rate, but 20th in murder rate. Norway is 2nd in gun possession rate, but 38th- next to lowest- in murder rate. Only one country- Montenegro- is in the top 10 for both murder rate and gun possession rate.
When the progs tell us that Europe is the model for "fewer guns- less murder," they are cherry picking the data. Europe isn't just France, Germany, and Great Britain. For Europe as a whole, the "fewer guns-less murder " narrative doesn't hold. So why should it hold for the United States?
Disclaimer: As a childhood friend was killed in a gun accident with his older brother, I have no love for guns. But the onus was on the father for letting his children have easy access to guns without teaching his children about gun safety.
In a 2017 Pew Research Center survey, The demographics of gun ownership, 49% of white households and 32% of black households reported owning a gun.
ReplyDeleteA 2014 Pew Research Center survey also showed more white households had guns compared to black households, but with rather different numbers compared to the 2017 Pew Research Center:The demographics and politics of gun-owning households:
The new research also suggests a paradox: While blacks are significantly more likely than whites to be gun homicide victims, blacks are only about half as likely as whites to have a firearm in their home (41% vs. 19%). Hispanics are less likely than blacks to be gun homicide victims and half as likely as whites to have a gun at home (20%).
Perhaps the "paradox" is that the "fewer guns-less murder" narrative doesn't hold. Just perhaps.
While blacks are much more likely to be homicide victims or homicide offenders than whites, they are also less likely than whites to own guns. The differences between blacks and whites regarding gun possession and homicide is one more example that the "fewer guns-less murder" narrative doesn't hold. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Would this be "settled science?"
No, that can't be. Wingnuts are anti-science, doncha' know.
Stats mean nothing to the left. The Men In Charge have an agenda.
ReplyDeleteThe "useful idiots" operate from an emotional standpoint. Ever wonder why 95 percent of entertainers are left? My theory is that singing, acting etc are emotional professions, not rational-thus biased in favor of the left. Same thing in converse, engineers tend toward the conservative- their worldview is based on a logical assessment.
therefore, I do not believe the average leftist can have their mind changed a bit by any statistical analysis. The things that might work are firsthand conversion AKA "mug a liberal, get a conservative", or simple memes creating severe cognitive dissonance.
raven
ReplyDeleteStats mean nothing to the left. The Men In Charge have an agenda.
The "useful idiots" operate from an emotional standpoint.
I would agree that lefties have a greater tendency to operate from an emotional viewpoint- and a group-think viewpoint. However- how many lefties have been confronted with this data? Not many, I suspect.
One "emotional" approach would be to use the data to ridicule lefties as ignorant fools. No one- especially a lefty- likes to be ridiculed for being ignorant- especially since a BIG part of the lefty narrative is that lefties are the wise, knowledgeable, folk compared to those ignorant knuckle-dragging troglodytes on the right.
All good info, though you can quibble about some of the specific applications. The urban/rural difference in murder rates is even more stark (I did a little research on this a while back)- it's really almost a neighborhood by neighborhood phenomenon.
ReplyDeleteBut most of that is too complex and too subtle to get through to people quickly, for instance on Twitter.
One item that I've been using a lot (and getting exactly zero reply to) is a recent article by Charles C.W. Cooke about how Vermont has tons of guns, almost no state gun law, and very little gun crime. How can that be, if you believe all the 'guns are the problem' hype?
Vermont has tons of guns, almost no state gun law, and very little gun crime. How can that be, if you believe all the 'guns are the problem' hype?
ReplyDeleteWell, you know, Vermont is a Socialist State, and everybody knows Socialists are all right--it's why the Left want us to embrace socialism.
Eric Hines