Why, it's almost as if this guy actually believes all this religion stuff!
/prog_off
The fact that CNN is shocked to find the Pope believes in the devil shows precisely how out of touch they are with actual religious folk. I think the source of their surprise is that Pope Francis is so progressive that they cannot reconcile that fact with the fact that he is also a true believing Catholic.
I don't know if I believe in The Devil as some sort of immortal person. I do for a fact know that evil is real, that it exists and is persistent, and that it can be effectively fought as if it were a real person.
We have fought evil ideologies, as distinct from the persons who espouse them or are ruled by them, such as communism, fascism, nazism and the Islamist Perversion: why not evil, generally?
I have up-close and personal experience with the decay in character that accompanies multiple decisions to engage in serious sin (adultery and alcoholism, several different people). People who do things they know are wrong can lose the ability to think straight. More than one bewildered spouse has commented "He says the damnedest things."
It's as if they listen to an evil counselor, because it is hard to imagine where a decent person finds such stupid things to say.
You can even see the result when such a person is involved in legal proceedings. Go here, to read what a lawyer, stuck with an evil client, submits to a court, and how bad it looks to rational people. http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/07/rasmea-odeh-appeal-twists-into-pretzel-logic/
The Catholic Church has long experience with the study of evil, and the metaphors it has formulated are useful to explain its effects.
I understand that many people have trouble believing in immortal, immaterial beings -- and even those who don't sometimes have trouble believing in Satan, or demons. I'm just pointing out that the Pope is the one guy you should probably expect to believe in these things and to talk about them.
If you want to read the theology, it's in Summa Theologica I, Question 114. The immediately previous question, 113, deals with the good angels and their guardianship over men.
I fully expect that the Pope does believe as he says. Otherwise, he could not stand to live the life he does.
I'm the one with the problem about belief, and I know it's my problem, and not his. I cannot wrap my mind around the concept of immortal, immaterial beings. Fortunately for my peace of mind, I went to parochial school, where I learned that faith is a gift, and that some good people do not get this gift. It helps to know that I can't wrap my mind around the concept of an electron, either, and yet, I rely on my iPhone.
Is it important to you to try? I would be happy to talk through the arguments, but I'm not sure it's necessary if you're good with the iPhone analogy. :)
I come from the opposite direction from Valerie, as a charismatic follower of Christ, I do not have a problem with the concept of immortal, immaterial beings. I just wanted to throw out this little tidbit for thought. Why did God pick earth to cast satan down to? Out of all the planets in the universe, why earth? Could it be that part of satan’s punishment was to be pushed around as man took dominion over the earth?
"Earth" in that context might mean "creation in general", as opposed to our little rock here. This makes more sense to me, even though CS Lewis thought not.
Why, it's almost as if this guy actually believes all this religion stuff!
ReplyDelete/prog_off
The fact that CNN is shocked to find the Pope believes in the devil shows precisely how out of touch they are with actual religious folk. I think the source of their surprise is that Pope Francis is so progressive that they cannot reconcile that fact with the fact that he is also a true believing Catholic.
I don't know if I believe in The Devil as some sort of immortal person. I do for a fact know that evil is real, that it exists and is persistent, and that it can be effectively fought as if it were a real person.
ReplyDeleteWe have fought evil ideologies, as distinct from the persons who espouse them or are ruled by them, such as communism, fascism, nazism and the Islamist Perversion: why not evil, generally?
I have up-close and personal experience with the decay in character that accompanies multiple decisions to engage in serious sin (adultery and alcoholism, several different people). People who do things they know are wrong can lose the ability to think straight. More than one bewildered spouse has commented "He says the damnedest things."
It's as if they listen to an evil counselor, because it is hard to imagine where a decent person finds such stupid things to say.
You can even see the result when such a person is involved in legal proceedings. Go here, to read what a lawyer, stuck with an evil client, submits to a court, and how bad it looks to rational people.
http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/07/rasmea-odeh-appeal-twists-into-pretzel-logic/
The Catholic Church has long experience with the study of evil, and the metaphors it has formulated are useful to explain its effects.
Valerie
Progressives are always shocked to find out the pope is Catholic.
ReplyDeleteAs Mike notes, especially this pope.
Valerie,
ReplyDeleteI understand that many people have trouble believing in immortal, immaterial beings -- and even those who don't sometimes have trouble believing in Satan, or demons. I'm just pointing out that the Pope is the one guy you should probably expect to believe in these things and to talk about them.
If you want to read the theology, it's in Summa Theologica I, Question 114. The immediately previous question, 113, deals with the good angels and their guardianship over men.
Grim,
ReplyDeleteI fully expect that the Pope does believe as he says. Otherwise, he could not stand to live the life he does.
I'm the one with the problem about belief, and I know it's my problem, and not his. I cannot wrap my mind around the concept of immortal, immaterial beings. Fortunately for my peace of mind, I went to parochial school, where I learned that faith is a gift, and that some good people do not get this gift. It helps to know that I can't wrap my mind around the concept of an electron, either, and yet, I rely on my iPhone.
Valerie
Valerie,
ReplyDeleteIs it important to you to try? I would be happy to talk through the arguments, but I'm not sure it's necessary if you're good with the iPhone analogy. :)
I come from the opposite direction from Valerie, as a charismatic follower of Christ, I do not have a problem with the concept of immortal, immaterial beings. I just wanted to throw out this little tidbit for thought.
ReplyDeleteWhy did God pick earth to cast satan down to? Out of all the planets in the universe, why earth? Could it be that part of satan’s punishment was to be pushed around as man took dominion over the earth?
"Earth" in that context might mean "creation in general", as opposed to our little rock here. This makes more sense to me, even though CS Lewis thought not.
ReplyDelete