Danny took the AFQT (basically an IQ test: the cutoff for the Army is IQ 92) and the ASVAB (a vocational test to see which military specialty suits you). A smart kid—it’s genetic—Danny aced both tests and is in A-1 physical condition, so they basically told him he could pick his own specialty. He picked Airborne Rangers, the most dangerous specialty on the list...If you want to meet someone with a military minded kid, go and find a family with a military tradition. Few outside what BLACKFIVE calls America's warrior caste bother. You're a fortunate man to have raised a son both brave enough and wise enough to know the course of honor.
I am reliably informed by a Texas friend—in Texas everybody has a family member in the military—that Ranger school washouts get all the crap jobs in the Army. I passed this on to my son, but he was unfazed. “I’ll qualify.” As temperamentally hostile as I am to every form of facile optimism, I admired my son’s resolution.
(The only other conservative I know with a son in the military is Peter Brimelow of VDARE.com, whose son Alexander is currently serving with the US Marine Corps in Afghanistan. On the basis of this admittedly tiny sample, I’d suggest that if you want to meet a conservative with a military-minded kid, go to the dissident right. Bigfoot mainstream-conservative pundits send their kids to law school.)
On Veteran's Day
Our old friend John Derbyshire reports that his son, now a young man, has elected a military career. Naturally we congratulate the father and wish the son all the best.
As an American and a Marine I hate references to a military caste in the U.S. I have always thought BLACKFIVE was out to lunch on that point. We are supposed to live in a constitutional republic. We don't have kings, aristocracies, or castes. We certainly should not talk as if such things are preferable.
ReplyDeleteI don't think there's a question of what is preferable on the table. I think the question is of what is actual. The point as I understand it is that there are some families in which military service is part of the warp and woof of the family's culture. Like yours, I imagine, my family has had members in military service since the Revolutionary war. These, wherever they find themselves in American society, are usually the ones that produce youngsters who think of the military as a real option they might really consider -- chiefly because it's what their father did, or their uncle did, or their two or three cousins, as well as their grandfather or great uncle and great-great grandfather and so on.
ReplyDeleteAs for kings and aristocracies, I wonder if we don't have something like a blood royal. Both Mitt Romney and Barack Obama are relatives of George Washington, as has been every single President. They are also related, by the way, to the old British royalty -- not the current ones, who are from the Continent, but the old Plantagenet line.
If it were some or even just 'most' of them, that would be something; but it's actually all of them.
That isn't meant to imply that it's a good thing, but it is a thing.
As for aristocracy, I would argue that among the very chief problems that is destroying our republic is that we now do have one. There is indeed a kind of mutually-reinforcing elite at the head of our major government bureaucracies and financial institutions, which have come to be principally interested in each other.
My thoughts about the health of the republic are quite dark just now, however. The point was not to discuss the evils that have risen up among us, but to celebrate those few who have chosen to serve selflessly and with honor.
To them all, I wish a happy Veteran's Day. We can resume the darker thoughts tomorrow.
Bigfoot mainstream-conservative pundits send their kids to law school.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't all bad; we need conservative lawyers, too. There's enough of the ACLU, and too little of the Liberty Institute.
That aside, here's a prost! to our serving, wounded, fallen, and their families.
Eric Hines
"My thoughts about the health of the republic are quite dark just now, however. The point was not to discuss the evils that have risen up among us, but to celebrate those few who have chosen to serve selflessly and with honor."
ReplyDeleteWhile I too find myself in a dark corner these days, I'll throw in with,
"To them all, I wish a happy Veteran's Day. We can resume the darker thoughts tomorrow."
Grim,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I hope you had a happy Veteran's Day. Secondly, I agree with you point about a mutually reinforcing elite acting as a sort of aristocracy, especially among the politicians and media types. I think that is a bad thing.
Consequently, that is why I want to nip this talk of a military caste in the bud. It leads to people thinking in terms of what is best for their caste, tribe, class, etc. and not what is best for the country. It can also lead to a belief that the rules that govern everyone else don't apply to the members of the caste because they are so important, an end in and of themselves. I would not be surprised to learn that Gen Petraeus fell victim to such thinking.
11th cousins...not a biggie.
ReplyDeleteWhen Pew Research divided the American groups according to values and habits, they found that only one group of the nine tended not to know anyone in the military. That would be the one named True Liberals. So while I agree that a military caste would be a bad thing, I don't think there is much danger of being anything more than a statistical grouping.
My son was USMC. Came from Romania as a teenager. We haven't the faintest idea whether any of his relatives there were military, and we have few others even in our extended family. The world changes.
I believe there are solid numbers of African-Americans, Native Americasn, and Hispanics in our military - Asians and Jews less frequently.
I agree with Joel here most whole-heartedly.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about "caste" as no one forced me to join the Army, but mine is indeed a military family. In just my immediate family, we have my eldest brother and myself who served in the Army, my father was Army, one of his brothers and his sister were Army, his Army brother's son went Marines (he was always a bit odd :P), and my dad had lots of uncles who saw service in WWII. My mother's father was in the Army for WWI and the expedition to chase Pancho Villa, my father-in-law was Army, as was HIS father-in-law. And it's not like I met my wife through the Army, she was working at the Savannah River Site while I was stationed at Ft. Gordon.
ReplyDeleteSo did I self-select for the military? Certainly. Did I select my spouse for it? Not remotely. So while I married "within my caste", no one made me, nor was it really an intentional choice. I'd have married her regardless of her family history.
Oh and for the record, none of the people listed in my family as having served were Academy grads. All the officers were ROTC, the rest of us slugs were enlisted. So we don't even have that connection.
Let's see. Dad and uncle (draft) and two great uncles (draft) served in the Navy/Marines, Army, Army Air Corps, and Army. One grandfather was too old and the other worked in a critical industry (and was too old) but managed to do a little impromptu spy-type work in 1940 in Europe. I tried three times to get in but apparently G-d had other plans.
ReplyDeleteNot really a caste, but all were southerners or Texans, and all were drafted, except me.
LittleRed1
Both my and my husband's families have a very strong military tradition, yet neither of our sons joined the military. We don't fault them for this - there are many honorable ways to serve God, family, and community.
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with Joel's point about the dangers of a military caste/military elite, and I share the concerns he expressed here:
As an American and a Marine I hate references to a military caste in the U.S. I have always thought BLACKFIVE was out to lunch on that point. We are supposed to live in a constitutional republic. We don't have kings, aristocracies, or castes. We certainly should not talk as if such things are preferable.
In defense of the folks at Blackfive, some of whom I agree with and a good many of whom I do not, I think they do recognize and honor non-military virtues as well as martial ones.
We can recognize courage and the sheepdog mentality without creating a cult of it. Not that I think this is what Grim is doing, mind you. I want to be quite clear on this.
But this mentality absolutely does exist withing the military community online, some of whom reflexively defend any military person, regardless of right or wrong or even whether that person has acted according to the ideals the military is supposed to uphold.
People keep looking for a simple formula for recognizing merit. We had this discussion a while back wrt limiting the franchise. The Starship Troopers seductive fantasy that limiting the vote to vets will somehow ensure wise/moral/conservative voters is... well, delusional.
IAVA, anyone?
Middle-aged father left a safe teaching job to join the Navy in WWII, had three destroyers shot out from under him (or just behind him as he left to lead a gunnery party) by kamikazes. Father-in-law emigrated from England as a boy (the second time it actually took), joined the Navy for WWII, but health and height problems limited him to the Shore Patrol in San Diego. An older brother would have gone to Canada rather than answer the draft for Viet Nam had his number come up (my own number was 6, but I was already in the USAF ROTC POC). I met my wife while on active duty in the USAF. Daughter eschewed the military, as did her husband. SIL's father, though, was involved as a civilian in some stuff in Middl-a-Nowhere, Australia in the early Cold War years. We'll see about the grandson and his soon to be sister.
ReplyDeleteNot much of a caste or family history there for me or mine. Some of us also come to our duty on our own (neither father talked much about their times--it wasn't their style). I don't dispute the idea of limiting the concept of caste, but so far it's not a military threat. There are other groupings that are present dangers.
Eric Hines
I wouldn't have thought a post celebrating families with a tradition of military service would be controversial on Veteran's Day. :)
ReplyDeleteOK: resolved, the community of Grim's Hall does not like the word "caste," or the concept it represents as applied to US military service.
FWIW, I liked your post :)
ReplyDeleteI just thought Joel made a good point, and it's one I have often struggled with myself.
Besides, I do love to argue with you!
Hey, sometimes you even get to win. I can be persuaded, on occasion.
ReplyDelete"OK: resolved, the community of Grim's Hall does not like the word "caste," or the concept it represents as applied to US military service. "
ReplyDeleteSuits me. I've never been a big fan of the caste system either.
This does bring up a question. Does this mean we'll not speak of any of the other castes in our society at The Hall?
Hey, sometimes you even get to win.
ReplyDeleteOnly when you let me, I suspect :p
Does this mean we'll not speak of any of the other castes in our society at The Hall?
ReplyDeleteI guess it does, excepting of course among Indian immigrants to whom the word applies in its original sense.
Only when you let me, I suspect :p
ReplyDeleteNow, now. Do you really think it's in my character to let somebody win? :)