But as I'm a bit cold-natured and socially clueless, in recent years I've made an effort to mingle. I always hang out in the parish hall after Sunday services, for instance, and since that's not a social convention that does anything for me naturally, I concentrate on practicing listening skills. (Left to my own instincts, I'd babble nervously and become a bore.) After a few years of this, I can't say it's grown on me much. Every so often it leads to a new friendship -- that spark you both feel when you realize you'd rather talk to each other than mingle -- and it always leads to a greater awareness of the situation and needs of those around me, which is good regardless of whether it's fun. Nevertheless, it retains an ersatz quality that reminds me I'm in alien territory.
I'll always prefer a few intense relationships to a large number of friendly ones, and focused conversations to casual interaction, not to mention (usually) solitude to groups. It will always be easier to get me to come to a party if its purpose is to pick up trash and then enjoy a picnic than if the agenda is to stand around with mixed drinks. As you can imagine, I was just about the world's worst networker as a law partner, a real stinker in that department. I was a lot more useful as the person you could tell to stay up three nights in a row in order to produce an outstanding chapter 11 plan on brutally short notice that would stand up on appeal. That kind of thing is hard work, but it doesn't hold a candle to the drain I experienced from having to attend cocktail parties. Oh, how glad I am to leave behind any professional obligation to attend cocktail parties. In a sane world I'd have found a way to get double my usual hourly rate for that chore, instead of having to pretend it was so much fun that I'd happily give up my nights and weekends to endure it.
The fact remains that we all have to mingle from time to time, and it's nice for us introverts to have a few tricks to make it less excruciating for ourselves and those around us. It's not like the extroverts have any plans to return the favor by learning how to structure social activities to our satisfaction, but that's OK. The extroverts will be happier with each other's company, anyway. They would hate our idea of parties and probably can't think of a good reason to learn otherwise.
He gives you the best advice I know: learn to listen to other people talk about themselves. The reason that extrovert conversations never flag is that they're all talking about their favorite subject. If you can learn to patiently listen, appear interested, and ask relevant questions that keep them talking about themselves, they will come to regard you as both extremely smart and a fascinating conversationalist.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the upside is that extroverts actually think by talking to other people and checking the reactions. Thus, if you have an interest in human virtue, it turns out to be relatively easy to steer them in the right direction: it just takes a lot of patience, and you have to decide how much such charity you can afford.
"The fact remains that we all have to mingle from time to time, and it's nice for us introverts to have a few tricks to make it less excruciating for ourselves and those around us."
ReplyDeleteMy bestest, most sure-fire *trick* is to stay home. I've found it just plain works better that way....for everyone (potentially) involved.
The truth is, I suppose, that I want attention, too, but I don't know how to get it in a crowd. I do enjoy singing to an audience, but when it comes to an exchange of ideas I care about or feelings that are strong, I want a small group or, better yet, one-on-one communication.
ReplyDeleteIf there's got to be a crowd, I want to put them all to work singing harmonies.
I'm not much of a crowd person either...
ReplyDeleteI blame two things. Spending too many years living in and commuting to/from work in various megalopolis, and taking several communications classes in my yout'. Classes which, among other things, taught me how to be an active listener. From that point on, I've become quite selective in who I listen to, for many reasons.
For instance, I can't listen to I WON at all. Reading transcripts is bearable, but reading transcripts does not seem to go over at parties. Whoda thunk?
My name is LittleRed1 and I'm an introvert. I get physically uncomfortable in crowded spaces, and because I have problems keeping track of who is whom, trying to remember personal information so I can ask people about kids, grandkids, pets, and flower gardens gets tricky. One-on-one is no problem, or talking to a large group is fine, but going from person to person at a party or something? Ay ay ay. Plus I get tired of having to pretend that my political and social beliefs are something that they are not. Let me go back and hide among my books, please.
ReplyDeleteLittleRed1
I read somewhere recently that introverts have an advantage on the Internet, where there is no premium on rapid, spontaneous responses, but there is a premium on the tendency to mull over a response and polish it before coming out with it (not a helpful technique in live conversations, unless your interlocutor is unusually patient). Extroverts, the article claimed, suffer from the unexpected difficulty they encounter in establishing their personas on the net and in particular find it difficult to thrive in online classes.
ReplyDeleteSo I suppose it wouldn't be surprising if most of the reading/commenting community here turned out to be rather introverted. I should have guessed that anyway, from the great pleasure I take in online conversations with all of you.
I can do larger crowds pretty well because it's easy to get lost in a crowd. Where I am most anxious is in the smaller, *cocktail party* crowds. It's virtually impossible to blend in with the background at one of those. So, one of the things that has been of a concern to me lately is MH's impending retirement -- which usually includes a ceremony of some sort in front of all those who have worked with him. That ceremony always includes the family.
ReplyDeleteI have a button that I bought my freshman year of college that says, "Has a problem with authority". It was true then, it's still true to this day. I mention it because MH is an MP. In fact, he is the Provost Sgt (and second only to the base SgtMaj in enlisted seniority), so his ceremony will be attended by not only officer's and mucky-mucks from the base, but also MP's and DoD police officers. I'm sure you see the dilemma inherent in this situation. (Come see the dilemma inherent in the situation! Sorry, couldn't resist...0>;~}) A day that should be full of joy and pride for all MH has accomplished is already filling me with a disturbing dread....a true disturbance in the Force, if you will.
Once I'm talking to somebody it usually isn't bad--though there've been many occasions when the other person seemed to have nothing whatever to say. But in a "cocktail party sized" crowd people rapidly form conversational units, with body language that suggests that this is enough, and it is a little awkward to wedge into the group for a greeting.
ReplyDeleteSeems we have a preponderance of introverts here at the hall (I among them).
ReplyDeleteI'm curious- I married an extrovert (mild, not obnoxious), and with my mild introversion and some remaining shyness (painfully so in my youth), sometimes creates some tension as to what we ought to do. Do mixed marriages of this type work, or better to match like with like?
"However, the upside is that extroverts actually think by talking to other people and checking the reactions."
Wow. I suppose that makes sense that someone who is outward oriented is also going to be looking outward for approval/disapproval, but to realize that to extend that means you end up figuring out right and wrong based on reactions is shocking. I do know some extroverts who could use some guidance, and I'll do my best to take be cognizant of my reactions in this light.
Tex, that's true here, and does certainly give us introverts a place that's rather to our liking, but I don't think I can agree that the internet is even mostly a place "where there is no premium on rapid, spontaneous responses, but there is a premium on the tendency to mull over a response and polish it before coming out with it." Proof of this is readily available- at the many sites where hordes of extroverts have to gush their gut responses out in the comments (sometimes getting to thousands of comments). To whom are they even speaking- I mean, who reads several thousand comments? I do notice that many of those are left leaning sites, for what it's worth. The internet seems to function as a pretty good outlet for them too.
DL, I'd suggest that since all are to be present for the sake of honoring your husbands service, you've got an easy out for conversation- your husband. Just ask them what their favorite funny story about him is and sit back and listen. Shouldn't be too much work, and might even be fun. I don't know if this will work, but when I'm at a function with my wife where she knows everyone, and I don't, I try to hang on to her so I can do less work in conversations. Sometimes it gets a little boring, but it's tolerable.
There are lots of comments boards where people sort of vomit out a spontaneous reaction among a flood of others, but no one is really establishing a persona there. They're just anonymous voices in a large, loud crowd. Now you're making me curious, though, about the article I referred to, because I barely skimmed it. I'll have to see if I can find it again.
ReplyDeleteI chuckled at your question about who reads very long comment threads, because I do. I'm fascinated by how arguments play out, and usually find the comments threads much more interesting than the original posts.
About mixed marriages: my husband is even more introverted than I am. I tend to be our ambassador to the outside world, which truly is the blind leading the blind. But we suit each other very well, despite a slight tendency to struggle over who will have the chore of making a necessary phone call or of going out "among the English."
Douglas:
ReplyDelete...to realize that to extend that means you end up figuring out right and wrong based on reactions is shocking.
Well, phrase it differently and it's a little less shocking.
"If you're worried about a decision, how do you decide whether a given course of action is right or wrong?"
The introvert's answer will have to do with reasoned principles or gut feelings -- an internal assessment. The extrovert's answer is closer to this:
"I talk to people I like, trust or respect, and go over the several courses I'm thinking about. Usually the right thing emerges."
That method could be reasonably reliable, if you're part of a community with a strong moral structure. It's likely to lead to bad results consistently if you belong to a community whose structure is selfish or cruel. I'm afraid that the American society is increasingly selfish, though it is not at all cruel: we seem to build our injustices around trying to make people happy.
T99:
Oh, I hate to make phone calls. It's one of the things I've really had to work at professionally -- actually calling someone up, knowing that the phone is going to interrupt their day, always seems rude and presumptuous. I'd usually rather wait a month until I happen to run into them to get an answer that I need, than to call them on the phone for five minutes.
But that's how we live these days, so I've learned to do it.
Douglas,
ReplyDelete"I'm curious- I married an extrovert (mild, not obnoxious), and with my mild introversion and some remaining shyness (painfully so in my youth), sometimes creates some tension as to what we ought to do. Do mixed marriages of this type work, or better to match like with like?"
Same mixed marriage here, and as we're approaching four decades together, I have the same question... =;^}
@Tex,
ReplyDeleteI do like the fact that certain portions of the internet favor thoughtful response over instanteous response. However, I think Twitter (and discussion boards without good moderators) give a huge advantage to the extrovert-style of communication.
I an introvert also; at a certain age I got a couple of comments from Mother and her friends about me being shy. Later, my Mother tried to encourage me to do something other than read in my spare time.
Since then, I've gained some skill at social interaction. However, I have a habit of circulating at the edges of social events and trying to decide who I want to interact with vs. who I want to avoid...
@Grim, I agree about phone calls. I don't like making them. I only like receiving them when I have some idea of what the conversation will be about. (Caller-ID is a blessing for distinguishing wanted from unwanted calls...)
Have you ever had to apologize to a family member (or close friend) for being too curt and short on the phone?
I had to do it once, because she called me when I had my mind on work-related stuff.
Heh, the phone call thing- I guess that's pretty common- me too.
ReplyDeleteGrim, I think perhaps I misread you then- to me it was more a statement that the extrovert, in the course of everyday interaction, is receiving inputs about acceptable/not acceptable, and adjusting on the fly, as opposed to looking outward for counseling- heck, we all do that to some extent, right? Part of why I come here is for the discussion of principles and ethics, as a means of better understanding and calibrating my internal regulator.
I got from your original statement that extroverts aren't really doing that, but more what I just described, which means they're potentially extremely fungible in the question of what's right and what's wrong. If that is the model, cursing around children is inappropriate, but if you do it constantly, and people just ignore it because it's easier, would lead the extrovert to assume that it's fine. That's the sort of thing I was worried about, and if that's how someone is making their value judgements, it's a bit frightening especially in a society where things like churches and other external regulators are less influential then they used to be.
Also, when thinking about the comments at the link, I think that there's really more of a two axis graph (there's a name for these that escapes me at the moment) to describe these personality traits- one axis being shy/engaging, and the other being introvert/extrovert. Since my youth, I've moved pretty far from the shy end toward the engaging end, but the introvert still prevails on that axis.
Douglas:
ReplyDeleteNo, you understood me the first time -- my second remark was merely to help it sound less alarming. But really, it's quite alarming.
Hannah Arendt's account of the trial of Adolf Eichmann focuses on this aspect of his morality. Asked how he could have approved the policy of switching from deporting Jews to killing them, his response was that all the best people -- the people he trusted, respected, and admired -- had been on board with it. Whatever internal principles or gut feelings he had against it (and he seems to have had at least some) were set aside in favor of external signs that the policy was obviously right. After all, if the best men in the community should all uniformly endorse something, what are you to think but that it must be wise?
Arendt developed this into a length account of a quality she called "thoughtlessness" -- the failure to fully engage the moral questions of your life, as an individual, with philosophical seriousness. To a large degree, though, it's just a question of intro- versus extroversion. The philosophically introverted life is as unnatural to most people as many of these things are to us.
Karrde:
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone has asked me to apologize, but sometimes I do it without being asked.
Karrde- I've been there- I thought I was just matter-of-fact (or wasn't giving it much thought at all, but had that interpreted as being brusque.
ReplyDeleteGrim, I was just saying that as opposed to seeking counsel outside ourselves from those we deem wise, which I think even the most introverted do as a means of calibrating that inner regulator or conscience, I took you to mean that extroverts do it without the pretext of seeking counsel- such that casual interaction is taken the same as solicited or specifically sought counsel- the common and mundane as wisdom. That's a big difference. Of course, I suppose that's mitigated by the fact that few of us would be black or white extro/introverts- it's certainly more a spectrum.
"Arendt developed this into a length account of a quality she called "thoughtlessness" -- the failure to fully engage the moral questions of your life, as an individual, with philosophical seriousness."
So she was saying that the unexamined life is not worth living, eh? Sound advice.
Yeah, she was a big fan of Socrates. She admired him because he was one of those highly unusual philosophers, who not only thought but did. He fought at Potidaea, Delium, and Amphipolis. Arendt sympathized, having done some work for the Zionists in Nazi Germany before being picked up by the Gestapo. She escaped to France, but was there captured and put in a concentration camp. She escaped again during the Vichy turnover, when prison authority lapsed, and managed to make it to New York.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking about this today, and she takes it a step further, I think- it's not just that that life isn't worth living, her line implies that it then becomes a danger to other lives around it. I think that's true, at least potentially, and an important addition to Socrates famous line.
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