tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post5331596980125899552..comments2024-03-28T16:58:17.705-04:00Comments on Grim's Hall: Haidt's SurveysGrimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07543082562999855432noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-24415278260256188972012-04-18T17:29:38.889-04:002012-04-18T17:29:38.889-04:00It's not hard to understand the enemy when the...It's not hard to understand the enemy when the enemy's own rank and file generals and spies defect and explain what has been really going on.Ymar Sakarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-48055365519163586122012-04-14T11:17:18.391-04:002012-04-14T11:17:18.391-04:00He doesn't completely understand conservatism,...He doesn't completely understand conservatism, but he gets closest to it of anyone I've seen on the prog side.<br /><br />I also think he's dead on right about the need for balance. Both world views have blind spots.<br /><br />Conservatives look at modern society and take for granted that aspects fought for by liberals would somehow have spontaneously occurred without their efforts. I think that's arrant nonsense.<br /><br />Liberals do the same thing in reverse: they look at aspects attributable to conservative values and efforts and assume that if we just didn't worry about those things, we'd still enjoy the benefits.<br /><br />More and more, I'm seeing that both sides tie themselves into rhetorical pretzels trying to justify their positions or score points on the other side. But arguments that do violence to the values we claim (on either side) to revere are suspect on the merits.Cassnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-69457113408478243162012-04-13T20:50:12.788-04:002012-04-13T20:50:12.788-04:00I love Haidt, but have been railing against a coup...I love Haidt, but have been railing against a couple of his points for at least two years. Here's the thing: he has changed one of them, more to my way of thinking. (I would love to think I had something to do with that, but the odds are remote.) He did not formerly have purity as a liberal value, but has become convinced over time that it is (see environmentalism, for example.) The man can learn and change, which is frankly, better than most of us can say about ourselves.Assistant Village Idiothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978011985085795099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-74386902299675200732012-04-13T20:26:05.891-04:002012-04-13T20:26:05.891-04:00I was amused by this in the New York piece: "...I was amused by this in the New York piece: "Such thinking would threaten the pieties of both left and right. Conservatives might have to adjust to a world in which few human failings could be fully blamed on cultural decline. At the same time, the liberal mind would be forced to rethink its posture toward cultural backwardness, and decide whether it ought to treat illiberal attributes like intolerance and racism as part of human nature." That sounds like a liberal's summing up of his own peculiar view of the pieties that motivate liberals and conservatives. For myself, at least, I don't blame human failings on cultural decline. I blame cultural decline for aspects of our society that are putting needless roadblocks between us and success, but (being a conservative) I blame human failings on the humans who failed; as a result, I'm inclined to let them live with the consequences of failure, within limits. As for the idea that liberals are engaged in a grand struggle to eliminate "cultural backwardness" in the form of intolerance and racism, I just scoff.<br /><br />A conservative would be more likely to sum up the characteristic pieties like this. Conservatives want people to be as free as possible to make their own choices, but to be required to live with their consequences (as Cass was saying). Liberals are more inclined to believe that circumstances beyond our control are more important determinants of our results than are our own choices, so society should pitch in and help out whenever those results aren't optimal.Texan99https://www.blogger.com/profile/10479561573903660086noreply@blogger.com