tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post5058427496112542140..comments2024-03-28T21:41:32.110-04:00Comments on Grim's Hall: Romance and WaitingGrimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07543082562999855432noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-59287890749587949332016-11-26T20:58:12.526-05:002016-11-26T20:58:12.526-05:00Well, if you remember, it's Athena who acts to...Well, if you remember, it's Athena who acts to get him out of that situation. Kyrke is active, and so is Athena, and so is Penelope in her way. Indeed, Penelope is the one whose actions are making the <i>suitors</i> wait -- for ten years!<br /><br />If I were going to try to break it into a "X always waits" model, I'd have done it on the mortal/immortal lines. The gods don't have to wait, or they don't mind waiting (perhaps because they are so old, perhaps because they have forever). It's the mortals who feel the pain of waiting, as they feel the pain of death. Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07543082562999855432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-85772038368169932342016-11-26T17:39:58.186-05:002016-11-26T17:39:58.186-05:00That men act doesn't mean they are all-powerfu...That men act doesn't mean they are all-powerful. Men in such stories are often held prisoner or temporarily helpless in some way in the face of overwhelming force.<br /><br />Odysseus is a homesick captive at the opening of the Odyssey, but he acts throughout—he's the one who left and comes home, he wends his way through adventures and overcomes adversaries, and finally he frees the house of the suitors. Penelope doesn't really do anything other than fend off the suitors. This is a clever and loyal thing for her to do, and these are virtues for which Penelope is celebrated, but it's very passive.jaedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03328666344764784829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-43958134441524401892016-11-26T11:14:55.564-05:002016-11-26T11:14:55.564-05:00Good point.
Even the author's own chosen ex...Good point. <br /><br />Even the author's own chosen example is a little strange. The <i>Odyssey</i> opens with Odysseus waiting -- crying, in tears, as he is held prisoner and forbidden from going home to Penelope. He is being held at the will of a female entity, not a woman but an immortal, forced to wait because it pleases her. Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07543082562999855432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-31605652055296374402016-11-26T04:05:53.861-05:002016-11-26T04:05:53.861-05:00Pygmalion can't find a good woman, so carves a...Pygmalion can't find a good woman, so carves a statue of he perfect woman. Waits. Is taken pity upon by Aphrodite who brings the statue (Galatea) to life. So, he had to wait for the perfect woman, no? douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03241790925053112959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-58162236861168463862016-11-24T23:30:01.290-05:002016-11-24T23:30:01.290-05:00There's some small difference between Egil Ska...There's some small difference between Egil Skallagrimsson and Lancelot du Lac. A man like me might be either one. It's important which one, don't you think?Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07543082562999855432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-67373167958657184612016-11-24T21:33:50.570-05:002016-11-24T21:33:50.570-05:00The quick answer is that this chivalric value in M...The quick answer is that this chivalric value in <i>Mort D'Arthur</i> is something of an accommodation by the entering Christian culture to the underlying Germanic cultures which gave higher status to women than the cultures to the south. That's the conventional wisdom - don't know if it's an exaggeration.<br /><br />Interesting that while women seemed to be held in little regard, they still figure prominently in the goddesses, saints, and in the minds of the heroes the literature is about. I don't want to draw glib conclusions from this.Assistant Village Idiothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978011985085795099noreply@blogger.com