tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post3159381924707217133..comments2024-03-28T00:01:43.037-04:00Comments on Grim's Hall: A Piece for CassGrimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07543082562999855432noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-30423575086383719462017-01-25T12:59:21.442-05:002017-01-25T12:59:21.442-05:00Human stratagems are a fool's gambit in the ey...Human stratagems are a fool's gambit in the eyes of the divine. Even to Lucifer, who was once the bright one. For as much as humanity has practiced the arts of propaganda and manipulation, they cannot match Lucifer still in the arts of seduction, manipulation, or warfare.<br /><br />Ymar Sakarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-30587067986979510212017-01-25T12:26:55.418-05:002017-01-25T12:26:55.418-05:00This author might just reflect on the practical ap...This author might just reflect on the practical application of her rule (all contempt <> equal, it may be OK to show contempt to the powerful, etc.)<br /><br />She's not leaving them much (any, really) incentive to listen :p<br /><br />Any incentive I had to listen to the Women's marchers disappeared when I listed to the filth their invited speakers were spouting. They were contempt, personified.<br /><br />And the result was that I have written them off. NOTINMYNAME!!!!11!! (shades of the anti-war left :p)Cassnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-66413032214217141902017-01-25T12:23:37.126-05:002017-01-25T12:23:37.126-05:00Jonathan Haidt (whom I quote all the time) had som...Jonathan Haidt (whom I quote all the time) had something a while back about, "How do you get someone who disagrees with you to consider your views?"<br /><br />The answer turned out to be, "You need some kind of bond of trust with the person first - otherwise, they discount everything you say." IOW, if people feel they have some common ground, and that they like and/or trust the person they're talking to, AND they don't feel attacked or belittled, it's easier to get them to actually listen to you.<br /><br />What a shocker. At the bottom of all this is a simple concept, upon which rests all of civilization: the reasonable expectation of reciprocity. The absence of this fragile expectation is poison.Cassnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-28516288312070808892017-01-25T05:12:38.298-05:002017-01-25T05:12:38.298-05:00"At any rate, it's at least a nudge in th...<i>"At any rate, it's at least a nudge in the direction of restoring civilizational norms to public discourse -- if only until 'we win,' and if only because it is a better strategy (for now)."</i><br /><br />This is the way you get people to stop and listen to you for a minute and maybe change their actions in the immediate. Then you have an opening to delve further into the finer points. My Dad is a pretty set person- and this is the technique that works to get him to reconsider something. Works every time.<br /><br />I've heard it said that a marriage can survive anything- lies, cheating, affairs, but not contempt. It's corrosive. I think it's a good observation on her part that this is where we're at. Maybe it's not too late to arrest the corrosion in the relationship of our citizenry.douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03241790925053112959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-81209565970949763862017-01-23T23:02:39.087-05:002017-01-23T23:02:39.087-05:00No sense of humor, Grim. Oddly enough, sometimes I...No sense of humor, Grim. Oddly enough, sometimes I'm just a smart---.<br /><br />Eric HinesE Hineshttp://aplebessite.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-73570151057807793352017-01-23T22:37:23.406-05:002017-01-23T22:37:23.406-05:00Of course that would be more fun. It's more f...Of course that would be more fun. It's more fun to punch people in the face. I wouldn't recognize it as what Tex was asking about, though.Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07543082562999855432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-21498059166891418932017-01-23T22:34:48.080-05:002017-01-23T22:34:48.080-05:00Perhaps they could say, "I hear the contempt ...<i>Perhaps they could say, "I hear the contempt in your remarks, but I refuse to respond in kind. I'm going to try to treat you with the respect I think all human beings deserve, if you'll let me."</i><br /><br />Nah. Be more fun to say, "I hear the contempt in your remarks, but I refuse to respond in kind. You're just not worth the trouble."<br /><br />Eric HinesE Hineshttp://aplebessite.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-57085638481028993002017-01-23T22:28:06.626-05:002017-01-23T22:28:06.626-05:00Well, it reminds me of the sign I once saw at a Pl...Well, it reminds me of the sign I once saw at a Planned Parenthood rally, back when I thought the important thing was to form a human wall around the facility to protect the patients from the awful pro-life marchers. One of them had a sign that read, "I love <i>you</i>, and I'd fight for <i>your</i> life, too." It really hit me. I've mentioned it often since then, and oddly enough the reaction I often get from pro-abortion people is "I'm sure you're making that up."Texan99https://www.blogger.com/profile/10479561573903660086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-66293177911775589532017-01-23T22:10:21.513-05:002017-01-23T22:10:21.513-05:00Perhaps they could say, "I hear the contempt ...Perhaps they could say, "I hear the contempt in your remarks, but I refuse to respond in kind. I'm going to try to treat you with the respect I think all human beings deserve, if you'll let me."<br /><br />That leaves the other side free to say something awful in return, but maybe it pulls the teeth of it to some degree. Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07543082562999855432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-68926075594574150352017-01-23T19:01:15.119-05:002017-01-23T19:01:15.119-05:00What does it look like when someone engages in &qu...What does it look like when someone engages in "rejecting contempt on its face"? How would we recognize this action?Texan99https://www.blogger.com/profile/10479561573903660086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-6030218245116667892017-01-23T17:44:03.502-05:002017-01-23T17:44:03.502-05:00Dad is on to something, I think. I've seen sev...Dad is on to something, I think. I've seen several twitter commentators asserting that Trump et al is in an existential fight with the NYT/Harvard/CIA etc. <br /><br />There is a lot of status at stake here. Eric Blairnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-75599113701723347862017-01-23T17:42:58.637-05:002017-01-23T17:42:58.637-05:00The funny thing is that she nods at an ethical/mor...The funny thing is that she nods at an ethical/moral argument when she writes, "Nevertheless, it would be a mistake to conclude that all expressions of contempt are equally bad." <br /><br />I gather she believes that Trump's sort of contempt is worse because it is directed at the Powerless (i.e., the designated victim class, whether or not they are in fact the victims or even a meaningful class). But it ends up reading that contempt from the Powerless is worse, because her real argument turns out to be instrumental and their contempt expressions are counterproductive. <br /><br />At any rate, it's at least a nudge in the direction of restoring civilizational norms to public discourse -- if only until 'we win,' and if only because it is a better strategy (for now).Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07543082562999855432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-53499453693133326582017-01-23T17:14:14.932-05:002017-01-23T17:14:14.932-05:00I propose that the statement would be more accurat...<i>I propose that the statement would be more accurate if it were "without much status."</i><br /><br />More like "not properly indoctrinated."Mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-90813022349112305882017-01-23T16:47:51.985-05:002017-01-23T16:47:51.985-05:00particularly rural voters without much education.
...<i>particularly rural voters without much education.</i><br /><br />Given that "college education" is by and large the equal of what high-school education was about 50 years ago, what does "without much education" really mean?<br /><br />I propose that the statement would be more accurate if it were "without much status."Dad29https://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5173950.post-24489037366943540392017-01-23T16:40:52.445-05:002017-01-23T16:40:52.445-05:00Well, as someone who has frequently been j'acc...Well, as someone who has frequently been j'accused of Kantian sympathies, I cannot endorse a rejection of contempt that cannot be applied universally (!).<br /><br />/running away :)<br /><br />Seriously, you've gotta love how these folks try to bend the rules so that The Powerless (their preferred in group) can never be in the wrong/never be held accountable.Cassnoreply@blogger.com